(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Floris Barthel]PB[Harry v.d. Krogt]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2004-10-17]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: first post
mingjiu [7p\]: good morning
Ralf [13k\]: moin moin^^
guojuan [5p\]: good afternoon
ivoSF [5k\]: morning ming jiu
darkblue [?\]: hi
Mukoji [23k?\]: hi @ all, mingjiu, guojuan
vinhxuan [14k\]: hello
patanjali0 [4k\]: good afternoon
liangsanbo [3k\]: good night
QI [8k?\]: hi
Jael [?\]: yo :)
gogirl12 [?\]: Morning! *smiles*
mingjiu [7p\]: haha
guojuan [5p\]: ok we start now
Bardock [5k\]: what ranks are the people playing?
]
(;B[dp]CR[dp]C[ericlavine [5k?\]: one is 2dan
patanjali0 [4k\]: flush??
guojuan [5p\]: this game played by two Dutch players
]
;W[pq]CR[pq]
;B[cd]CR[cd]C[guojuan [5p\]: Flush yes
guojuan [5p\]: he is 2dan 
]
;W[pc]CR[pc]C[MM [23k?\]: flush?
]
;B[ec]CR[ec]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: Is he young?
]
;W[qe]CR[qe]C[hikaruwolf [18k\]: any audio?
]
;B[po]CR[po]
;W[pl]CR[pl]C[guojuan [5p\]: 16years old
ericlavine [5k?\]: no audio
]
;B[mp]CR[mp]C[MM [23k?\]: No audio.
guojuan [5p\]: my student:)
MM [23k?\]: oh.
]
(;W[oo]CR[oo]
;B[on]CR[on]
;W[no]CR[no]
;B[pp]CR[pp]
;W[nq]CR[nq]LB[nn:A][qq:B]C[guojuan [5p\]: in the game they chosen this joseki
guojuan [5p\]: question: what is the correnct order, A or B, what is the correct mover for black
guojuan [5p\]: ?
liangsanbo [3k\]: B?
Poeli [13k\]: a
ericlavine [5k?\]: a
terebi [8k?\]: i think a :)
Bardock [5k\]: B
moodindigo [15k?\]: b
Mukoji [23k?\]: a
gogirl12 [?\]: a
Boddah [?\]: b
boubou [4k\]: B
TonyTiger [7k\]: I guess both are ok
vinhxuan [14k\]: B
dkiller [8k?\]: A
jotarokung [2d\]: A
DangoMouse [2k\]: B
velobici [9k\]: B\\
ivoSF [5k\]: b
moodindigo [15k?\]: because of a base for black and more eyespace
Ralf [13k\]: b
patanjali0 [4k\]: a
hikaruwolf [18k\]: b
mingjiu [7p\]: 50%
darkblue [?\]: a
marcinkam [1d\]: ::)
rhubarb [10k\]: a
Javaness [-\]: if B white has no base still?
vince [5k\]: A
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: need to shut off most of the comments
guojuan [5p\]: if you listen careful today
guojuan [5p\]: you will not make mistake anymore
guojuan [5p\]: now another joseki
dkiller [8k?\]: ok
guojuan [5p\]: got it?
QI [8k?\]: yes
TonyTiger [7k\]: So the ordes does matter
MM [23k?\]: could blac play at M6?
]
(;B[qq]CR[qq]C[guojuan [5p\]: this is correct
guojuan [5p\]: see another joseki first
MM [23k?\]: black
QI [8k?\]: R3 Q2 not possible ?
]
(;W[oq]CR[oq]C[guojuan [5p\]: therefore hane in the corner is the correct order for black
]
;B[nn]CR[nn]
(;W[mo]CR[mo]
;B[rp]CR[rp]
;W[iq]CR[iq]C[guojuan [5p\]: this is joseki
]
;B[kc]CR[kc]
;W[cj]CR[cj]
;B[ch]CR[ch]
;W[cn]CR[cn]
;B[cl]CR[cl]C[gogirl12 [?\]: Darnit! I've still got no sound! : (
]
;W[en]CR[en]
;B[fq]CR[fq]
;W[bp]CR[bp]
(;B[cq]CR[cq]C[Kikumaru [12k\]: close and reopen sometimes that works
]
;W[dk]CR[dk]LB[nc:B][pi:A][qi:D][dm:C]C[flogo [2k\]: R10 ?
Harleqin [4k\]: right side
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: q11
rhubarb [10k\]: o17
whistler [-\]: b3 ?
SoulDevil [4k?\]: d7
QI [8k?\]: Q11 
Bardock [5k\]: d7
MM [23k?\]: R11
Kikumaru [12k\]: but
Graou [10k\]: L15
Kikumaru [12k\]: what about the base?
Kikumaru [12k\]: on the left corner
QI [8k?\]: O17 
Bardock [5k\]: n17
Kikumaru [12k\]: b3?
DangoMouse [2k\]: e15
whistler [-\]: b3
whistler [-\]: ?
Harleqin [4k\]: heh :)
liangsanbo [3k\]: A?
dkiller [8k?\]: E12
ndkrempel [9k\]: L15
MM [23k?\]: H17?
jotarokung [2d\]: A
liangsanbo [3k\]: A
dhy4n4 [-\]: -_-"
lazy [?\]: (right's better then a moyo move on the top left?)
otakung [2d?\]: A
gogirl12 [?\]: a?
]
(;B[bq]CR[bq]C[Isobeutel [15k\]: lol
moodindigo [15k?\]: no
velobici [9k\]: slow move. A or B better
]
(;W[jd]CR[jd]TR[dk]C[velobici [9k\]: good enough
MM [23k?\]: crazyness
]
;B[kd]CR[kd]
(;W[je]CR[je]C[Javaness [-\]: this shimari is unhappier too
]
(;B[ib]CR[ib]
;W[ke]CR[ke]C[MM [23k?\]: white go for center?
Hauke [14k\]: good for white
velobici [9k\]: white played bad move but result is good for white
]
(;B[nc]CR[nc]C[ericlavine [5k?\]: what is pushing from behind?
Wook [-\]: Hint: You can get all basic go terms with pictures at http://senseis.xmp.net
]
(;W[cf]CR[cf]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: Too early?
flush [2d\]: /me is white
]
;B[dg]CR[dg]C[Javaness [-\]: cbloodthirsty
ericlavine [5k?\]: black might get chance to rescue c8 ?
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: yes too early
velobici [9k\]: inconsistent, three go for center this forces balclk into center
flush [2d\]: :)
]
;W[dd]CR[dd]
;B[dc]CR[dc]
;W[de]CR[de]
(;B[ef]CR[ef]C[gogirl12 [?\]: Well, this has been cool, and I'm learning a lot, but go figure I've got to go... See you guys later!
]
;W[cc]CR[cc]
(;B[cb]CR[cb]C[ericlavine [5k?\]: bye gogirl
moodindigo [15k?\]: cya
jotarokung [2d\]: if B playb17 instead
]
;W[bc]CR[bc]
(;B[bb]CR[bb]C[jotarokung [2d\]: i play this sequence in my game today in b17
]
(;W[bh]CR[bh]C[Kikumaru [12k\]: hehe
MM [23k?\]: hehe
]
;B[bi]CR[bi]
;W[bg]CR[bg]
;B[ci]CR[ci]C[DrGoPlayer [5k\]: error
]
(;W[bj]CR[bj]C[Perhaps white has to play B16 inmediately?
]
;B[aj]CR[aj]C[And with the same reasoning shouldn't black play B16 now?
]
;W[bd]CR[bd]C[Javaness [-\]: connect?
astern [?\]: b9?
jotarokung [2d\]: b9
timewarp [7k\]: B9
flogo [2k\]: d8
malte [-\]: D8 
]
(;B[bk]CR[bk]
;W[dl]CR[dl]LB[ib:B][jd:E][cf:D][bk:C][bq:A]C[flush [2d\]: white wont have to weak ones, just one dead one^^
Kikumaru [12k\]: ^^;;
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: d8 better
Wook [-\]: flush dead groups are _very_ weak :)
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: a ,b, c bad
velobici [9k\]: c18 bad as well
Harleqin [4k\]: c14
Bardock [5k\]: c14
flogo [2k\]: b12 bad
Morphi [6k\]: b12
adulescens [?\]: k16
Harleqin [4k\]: K16
adulescens [?\]: ?
darkblue [?\]: k15
SoulDevil [4k?\]: b12
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: k16 too early
flush [2d\]: Yea
HellBoy1 [9k\]: yup
Morphi [6k\]: yes
Nanoc [7k\]: yeah
Bardock [5k\]: yes
rhubarb [10k\]: yes
Kikumaru [12k\]: =)
flush [2d\]: Thank you
dkiller [8k?\]: yes
malte [-\]: yes :)
plonk [16k\]: yep
dkiller [8k?\]: thanks
jotarokung [2d\]: ;)
MM [23k?\]: ty
Kikumaru [12k\]: I wasn't here ^^:;
MM [23k?\]: hw?heh
]
;B[cm]CR[cm]
;W[dm]CR[dm]
;B[bn]CR[bn]C[Is this result good enough for white?
]
;W[mn]CR[mn]
;B[ol]CR[ol]
;W[pk]CR[pk]
;B[ok]CR[ok]
;W[pj]CR[pj]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[pe]CR[pe]
;B[of]CR[of]
;W[oj]CR[oj]
;B[pm]CR[pm]
;W[nd]CR[nd]
;B[le]CR[le]
;W[nf]CR[nf]C[I guess I want too much here. I am not sure where to play, maybe solid at O15 is better? Or F16 inmediately?
]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[ne]CR[ne]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[ng]CR[ng]
;W[mf]CR[mf]
;B[oh]CR[oh]
;W[mj]CR[mj]
;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[lh]CR[lh]
;W[lf]CR[lf]
;B[qh]CR[qh]C[Personally I thought this was rather passive, though it does make good shape.
]
;W[fd]CR[fd]
;B[ed]CR[ed]
;W[ee]CR[ee]
;B[fe]CR[fe]
;W[gd]CR[gd]
;B[ab]CR[ab]
;W[ce]CR[ce]
;B[ic]CR[ic]
;W[he]CR[he]
;B[fc]CR[fc]C[I was very happy with this result.
]
;W[mh]CR[mh]
;B[ni]CR[ni]
;W[nj]CR[nj]
;B[mg]CR[mg]
;W[ki]CR[ki]
;B[mi]CR[mi]
;W[li]CR[li]
;B[kh]CR[kh]
;W[jh]CR[jh]
;B[lg]CR[lg]
;W[ii]CR[ii]
;B[kf]CR[kf]
;W[jf]CR[jf]
;B[kg]CR[kg]
;W[ho]CR[ho]C[Who is better now? Seems quite close. I even counted black ahead a little.
]
;B[hr]CR[hr]
;W[ir]CR[ir]
;B[hq]CR[hq]
;W[hp]CR[hp]
;B[gi]CR[gi]
;W[gj]CR[gj]
;B[fj]CR[fj]
;W[gk]CR[gk]
;B[hi]CR[hi]
;W[hj]CR[hj]C[In the end, I win by 5,5 points
])
(;B[dl]CR[dl]
;W[el]CR[el]
;B[ek]CR[ek]C[Kikumaru [12k\]: black escapes and white has two weak grups
]))
(;W[bd]CR[bd]))
(;W[bd]CR[bd]
;B[bg]CR[bg]C[velobici [9k\]: c18 horrible atari, black kills his own stone at c16
]
;W[bf]CR[bf]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: Silly move for white :)
]
;B[ac]CR[ac]
;W[ce]CR[ce]C[DrGoPlayer [5k\]: b dies
]
;B[ae]CR[ae]
;W[af]CR[af]
;B[ad]CR[ad]C[flush [2d\]: :S
]
;W[ab]CR[ab]C[flush [2d\]: Thanks
]
;B[aa]CR[aa]C[velobici [9k\]: alive
]
;W[fe]CR[fe]
;B[ee]CR[ee]
;W[ed]CR[ed]
;B[fd]CR[fd]
;W[fc]CR[fc]
;B[gd]CR[gd]
;W[fb]CR[fb]C[HellBoy1 [9k\]: alive
velobici [9k\]: d18 cut is fatal to black
]))
(;B[bd]CR[bd]
;W[bb]CR[bb]))
(;B[bd]CR[bd]C[gogirl12 [?\]: bye
]
(;W[fe]CR[fe])
(;W[bc]CR[bc]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: Nice tesuji
]
;B[bb]CR[bb]C[DrGoPlayer [5k\]: better for b
])))
(;B[fe]CR[fe]C[flush [2d\]: B16?
]
;W[ef]CR[ef]
;B[fh]CR[fh]))
(;W[ne]CR[ne]))
(;B[le]CR[le]
;W[jc]CR[jc]
;B[jb]CR[jb]
;W[ld]CR[ld]C[Hauke [14k\]: ;)
TonyTiger [7k\]: Ouch for black
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: good for w
flogo [2k\]: "Don't push from behind" ;-)
MM [23k?\]: heh
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: b must push at l15 first
]))
(;B[ke]CR[ke]C[jewel [4k\]: yep
]
;W[jf]CR[jf]
;B[ib]CR[ib]C[ericlavine [5k?\]: but in this case, all of black's pushes were from behind
]
;W[kf]CR[kf]
;B[lf]CR[lf]C[jewel [4k\]: pushing race where you are always catching up
]
;W[lg]CR[lg]
;B[mf]CR[mf]
;W[mg]CR[mg]
;B[nf]CR[nf]C[Hauke [14k\]: harder for white
]))
(;W[ib]CR[ib]C[MM [23k?\]: black gets that whole left coner that way.
]))
(;W[mc]CR[mc]))
(;B[dm]CR[dm]
;W[dn]CR[dn]
;B[em]CR[em]
;W[fm]CR[fm]
;B[el]CR[el]
;W[gk]CR[gk])
(;B[pi]CR[pi]C[Kikumaru [12k\]: is the bottom left corner alive?
])
(;B[nc]CR[nc])
(;B[qi]CR[qi]C[MM [23k?\]: can white play H17?
Wook [-\]: D looks too low
]
;W[pj]CR[pj]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: Nice
golfy [?\]: uhmm
liangsanbo [3k\]: um
]))
(;B[dk]CR[dk]
;W[cq]CR[cq]
;B[dj]CR[dj]C[Javaness [-\]: oh
]))
(;W[pn]CR[pn]C[guojuan [5p\]: don't worry this cut
guojuan [5p\]: game over for black
]
(;B[pm]CR[pm]
;W[qn]CR[qn]
;B[qm]CR[qm]C[guojuan [5p\]: hihi
]
(;W[rn]CR[rn]C[guojuan [5p\]: so this direction
]
;B[rm]CR[rm]C[guojuan [5p\]: but this is wrong for whtie
])
(;W[ro]CR[ro]C[guojuan [5p\]: tesuji 
amadis [7k\]: sound working or not?
]
(;B[rn]CR[rn]C[guojuan [5p\]: only move
guojuan [5p\]: little problem with msn
guojuan [5p\]: just a min. please
]
;W[qo]CR[qo]C[guojuan [5p\]: I am back
]
;B[qp]CR[qp]
;W[rm]CR[rm]TR[rn]C[ericlavine [5k?\]: so why shouldn't black be worried again?
QI [8k?\]: hm, it works :-)
Hauke [14k\]: good
ericlavine [5k?\]: so black s6 is mistake, right? what is correct move?
])
(;B[rp]CR[rp]C[Hauke [14k\]: yes
Kikumaru [12k\]: yes...but  I think you should make it moderated so it doesn't flood so much
]
;W[rm]CR[rm]C[amadis [7k\]: spotty here
whistler [-\]: is it better on msn ?
]
;B[ql]CR[ql]C[MM [23k?\]: :)
]
;W[rl]CR[rl]
;B[qk]CR[qk]
;W[rk]CR[rk]
;B[qj]CR[qj]
;W[ri]CR[ri]C[Isobeutel [15k\]: I hear perfecttly
]
;B[mo]CR[mo]
;W[lr]CR[lr]C[guojuan [5p\]: you hear him?
Hauke [14k\]: yesd
DangoMouse [2k\]: yes
TonyTiger [7k\]: yes
hugogogo [5k\]: yes
patanjali0 [4k\]: yes
HellBoy1 [9k\]: yes
guojuan [5p\]: ok:)
jotarokung [2d\]: yes
gogirl12 [?\]: I've got no sound : (
YesTwoEyes [8k?\]: yes
ericlavine [5k?\]: i hear a bit
velobici [9k\]: poorly spotty
amadis [7k\]: off and on
agui [5k\]: yes
MM [23k?\]: are you all on msn?
Harleqin [4k\]: how does black live in the corner?
agui [5k\]: no
Balladeer [3d\]: this comes in from goban
Balladeer [3d\]: yup
dkiller [8k?\]: yes
lazy [?\]: yup
phosphere [6k\]: y
DangoMouse [2k\]: yes
Hauke [14k\]: yes
adulescens [?\]: yes
agui [5k\]: yes
TonyTiger [7k\]: yes, we hear you
jotarokung [2d\]: yes
Morphi [6k\]: yes
HellBoy1 [9k\]: yes
Boddah [?\]: yes
Mukoji [23k?\]: yes
guojuan [5p\]: yes:)
Stardust [?\]: yes
MajorTom [18k\]: yes
Hu [8k\]: Yes
velobici [9k\]: MSN is bad news, lousy service
Bardock [5k\]: yes
MM [23k?\]: Yes now i can
Th4n4t0s [7k\]: yes
darkblue [?\]: yes
marcinkam [1d\]: yes I can hear you
ivoSF [5k\]: yes
QI [8k?\]: S2 
])))
(;B[qn]CR[qn]
;W[pm]CR[pm]C[guojuan [5p\]: this is wrong
])))
(;W[pr]CR[pr]
;B[qn]CR[qn]
;W[qr]CR[qr]
;B[rq]CR[rq]
;W[iq]CR[iq]LB[nn:A][mo:B][mq:C]TR[mp]C[guojuan [5p\]: this is another joseki
moodindigo [15k?\]: this is looser?
guojuan [5p\]: if now black plays at A, and w answers at B
guojuan [5p\]: the exchange would be very goood for white
guojuan [5p\]: agree?
marcinkam [1d\]: yes
ericlavine [5k?\]: yes
moodindigo [15k?\]: yep
Bardock [5k\]: yes
darkblue [?\]: yes
TonyTiger [7k\]: yes
gogirl12 [?\]: yep
QI [8k?\]: no
vinhxuan [14k\]: why ?
dkiller [8k?\]: humm ..
whistler [-\]: you always repeat that :) 
whistler [-\]: pushing from behinfd :D
guojuan [5p\]: why it is bad for black?
guojuan [5p\]: black should keep the aji at C
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: 5th line terr
guojuan [5p\]: because the black group is already alive 
guojuan [5p\]: after the exchange, The marked b stone is almost dead
guojuan [5p\]: more difficult ot move out
Javaness [-\]: ;-(
]))
(;B[nn]CR[nn]C[ivoSF [5k\]: how to atack q8 without it using thwe cut to get stronger?
]
;W[mo]CR[mo]
;B[qq]CR[qq]C[guojuan [5p\]: so very important not make this mitake
]
;W[pr]CR[pr]TR[nn]C[Kikumaru [12k\]: what is the alternative for black then?
DangoMouse [2k\]: what happens if b plays s4 instead of r6?
guojuan [5p\]: if push first with the marked move, now white would sagari
guojuan [5p\]: q2 thus
TonyTiger [7k\]: sagari?
QI [8k?\]: more points this way
velobici [9k\]: sagari = decend
]
;B[rp]CR[rp]TR[pr]C[guojuan [5p\]: if black plays here, the corner is open
Javaness [-\]: S4 looks funny to me
DangoMouse [2k\]: thanks
marcinkam [1d\]: there is q6 cut
mingjiu [7p\]: got it?
guojuan [5p\]: understand?
TonyTiger [7k\]: yes
gogirl12 [?\]: ... yes.
]))
(;W[pp]CR[pp]C[MM [23k?\]: this is a game against your student?
guojuan [5p\]: played go for little more than 1year
guojuan [5p\]: last time we explained this joseki
guojuan [5p\]: looks very popular
]))
(;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[rc]CR[rc]C[liangsanbo [3k\]: ?
]
;B[rb]CR[rb]C[Bardock [5k\]: homework
]
;W[rd]CR[rd]C[Harleqin [4k\]: you can use the F2 tool
]
;B[ra]CR[ra]
(;W[qc]CR[qc]C[QI [8k?\]: great fuseki
])
(;W[qd]CR[qd]
;B[qc]CR[qc]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
(;B[ob]CR[ob])
(;B[]C[malte [-\]: not atari anymore
]
(;W[ob]CR[ob]LB[oa:D][pa:C][qb:B][pc:A]C[velobici [9k\]: homework problem from last week
Bardock [5k\]: 4
Balladeer [3d\]: 5
vinhxuan [14k\]: 3
MM [23k?\]: 4.
swordsplay [10k\]: 3?
SoulDevil [4k?\]: 2
ericlavine [5k?\]: 3
velobici [9k\]: how many different first white first moves kill black
HellBoy1 [9k\]: 4
Nanoc [7k\]: 2
Javaness [-\]: i think 3
jotarokung [2d\]: 3
whistler [-\]: 4
flush [2d\]: 4
darkblue [?\]: 4
dkiller [8k?\]: 5
TonyTiger [7k\]: 4
ericlavine [5k?\]: 4
amigo [12k\]: 3
Wagner [1k\]: 4
liangsanbo [3k\]: 2
schimo [1d?\]: 4
haiku [-\]: 3
SoulDevil [4k?\]: 2
Ralf [13k\]: 2
lazy [?\]: 4
DangoMouse [2k\]: 4
Harleqin [4k\]: 4
rhubarb [10k\]: 3
vinhxuan [14k\]: 4
Morphi [6k\]: 4
malte [-\]: cant w tenuki? :)
Ambivlnce [13k\]: 3
GodRaisty [15k\]: 3 i think..
flush [2d\]: P19, Q19, R18, Q17
lazy [?\]: q17,r18,q19,p19?
terebi [8k?\]: 4
Nanoc [7k\]: 3
ericlavine [5k?\]: if tenuki then black q19
malte [-\]: haha
Harleqin [4k\]: heh :)
Isobeutel [15k\]: lol
Nanoc [7k\]: 3 ways
malte [-\]: oh, yes... *cough*
moodindigo [15k?\]: 3
darkblue [?\]: 4
jotarokung [2d\]: 4
Javaness [-\]: malte is on black's side
QI [8k?\]: aha
Harleqin [4k\]: p19, q19, r18 or q17
MM [23k?\]: Q17, Q19 ,R19 ,T17?
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: all but r19 kills
Mellonsan [14k\]: to kill or to capture?
Balladeer [3d\]: 4 right, my 5 was wrong ;)
ericlavine [5k?\]: i think white p19, q19, q17
liangsanbo [3k\]: 3
Nanoc [7k\]: q19
malte [-\]: Javaness: pah :P
flush [2d\]: P19 
Nanoc [7k\]: p19
flush [2d\]: Q19 
flush [2d\]: R18 
bananarok [20k?\]: R18
ericlavine [5k?\]: r18, yes forgot that one
ivoSF [5k\]: yes 4
Nanoc [7k\]: and p 19
QI [8k?\]: tenuki is better because b gets only 2 points even if he lives
Graou [10k\]: P19 works also, no?
Bardock [5k\]: p19
kafi94 [11k?\]: C
Harleqin [4k\]: p19
galopin [13k\]: four
lazy [?\]: p19 as well
Balladeer [3d\]: P19 
Wagner [1k\]: p19
ericlavine [5k?\]: p19 also
galopin [13k\]: P19
liangsanbo [3k\]: ย19
flush [2d\]: Its a blind spot^
])
(;W[nb]CR[nb]C[ericlavine [5k?\]: if r18, white q17?
]
;B[]C[galopin [13k\]: it's the one of the last week
]
;W[mc]CR[mc]LB[oa:D][pa:C][qb:B][pc:A]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: 3
DangoMouse [2k\]: 3
darkblue [?\]: 3
amigo [12k\]: 3
HellBoy1 [9k\]: 3
Nanoc [7k\]: 3
velobici [9k\]: now how many ways for white to kill black
lazy [?\]: 2
flush [2d\]: 3
Balladeer [3d\]: 3
darkblue [?\]: How many ways for black to kill white?
jotarokung [2d\]: 3
liangsanbo [3k\]: 3
rhubarb [10k\]: 2
Bardock [5k\]: 2
Bardock [5k\]: kill
SoulDevil [4k?\]: 4
borsuk [13k\]: 3
GodRaisty [15k\]: why does it change.. i say 4
SoulDevil [4k?\]: ^^
haiku [-\]: 3
Ambivlnce [13k\]: 3
Nanoc [7k\]: thx all
Nanoc [7k\]: cu
Graou [10k\]: 3
QI [8k?\]: 3
Wagner [1k\]: 3
flush [2d\]: These were all also done in mingjiu & guo juan lecture serie^^
schimo [1d?\]: 3
Bardock [5k\]: 2 kill 1 ko
liangsanbo [3k\]: 3
agui [5k\]: 2
lazy [?\]: ohh yea 3
ivoSF [5k\]: yeah flush and i said 3 again hehe
dkiller [8k?\]: 2
ericlavine [5k?\]: 3... r18, q19, q17
flush [2d\]: :P
dkiller [8k?\]: B work ?
liangsanbo [3k\]: D??
Nanoc [7k\]: d works?
HellBoy1 [9k\]: yeah
Nanoc [7k\]: i think no...
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: a b c work
flush [2d\]: no d doest work^^
velobici [9k\]: D does not work
kafi94 [11k?\]: A B C
Nanoc [7k\]: q19...
QI [8k?\]: P19 Q19 Q17 R18 
ericlavine [5k?\]: for first problem, i think r18 didn't work
liangsanbo [3k\]: A B C work
TonyTiger [7k\]: ABC of go
Nanoc [7k\]: so two ways
])
(;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[]
;W[mb]CR[mb]C[haiku [-\]: no sound
dkiller [8k?\]: ok B work
]
;B[]
;W[lc]CR[lc]C[velobici [9k\]: now how many ways for white to kill black
flush [2d\]: 1 way, ko^^
TonyTiger [7k\]: this is homework?
ericlavine [5k?\]: i only see one
haiku [-\]: 2
jotarokung [2d\]: 2
Nanoc [7k\]: one
terebi [8k?\]: 2
Vap [15k\]: Three.
lazy [?\]: 2
QI [8k?\]: 2
swordsplay [10k\]: 2
amigo [12k\]: 2
Ambivlnce [13k\]: 2
Balladeer [3d\]: ko indeed :)
Stavrogin [9k\]: 2 and a ko
agui [5k\]: 1
Nanoc [7k\]: ko
Kikumaru [12k\]: 1 way
Bardock [5k\]: 2
Morphi [6k\]: 2
jotarokung [2d\]: no ko
HellBoy1 [9k\]: 2
flush [2d\]: :P
bubulle [-\]: 3
Harleqin [4k\]: 2
Javaness [-\]: black has more ko threats
QI [8k?\]: 3
Wagner [1k\]: 2
TonyTiger [7k\]: 3
Bardock [5k\]: 1 ko
darkblue [?\]: 3
DangoMouse [2k\]: 2 and ko
Malluin [9k\]: 3
Kikumaru [12k\]: there's only one way...I believe it's b
ivoSF [5k\]: 3
lazy [?\]: bublle q19 doesn't work no more
rhubarb [10k\]: 2, q17 r18
bubulle [-\]: :p
Harleqin [4k\]: q19 doesn't work anymore since black can pull out once, then after capture, q17 and p19 are miai
GodRaisty [15k\]: i think 2
borsuk [13k\]: 2
ndkrempel [9k\]: 2
MM [23k?\]: 3..
Malluin [9k\]: q19 work...
QI [8k?\]: 2.5 ?
yunhwa [?\]: 2
liangsanbo [3k\]: 3
dhy4n4 [-\]: r18...
jotarokung [2d\]: q19 ko
dkiller [8k?\]: 1
Harleqin [4k\]: so it's a ko
haiku [-\]: q17 p18
Graou [10k\]: 2
HellBoy1 [9k\]: 1 and 1ko
Malluin [9k\]: ko ?
schimo [1d?\]: 2+1 ko at q19
dhy4n4 [-\]: r18, b dies...
SoulDevil [4k?\]: nop, q19 works with miai
liangsanbo [3k\]: 3 way
SoulDevil [4k?\]: no ko
Harleqin [4k\]: oh
QI [8k?\]: 2 plus ko
SoulDevil [4k?\]: 3 ways
flush [2d\]: 1 die, 2 ko
flush [2d\]: or
malte [-\]: 2 ko?
ivoSF [5k\]: 3
flush [2d\]: 1 ko^^
flush [2d\]: sorry
TonyTiger [7k\]: 2+ko
ivoSF [5k\]: ko=dead in l&d
Harleqin [4k\]: 1 + ko
DangoMouse [2k\]: ko is failure
flush [2d\]: 2 + ko
SoulDevil [4k?\]: no ko there
flush [2d\]: R18 Q17 kill
lazy [?\]: ivo not dead but not as good as life so if it's possible... only 2
malte [-\]: i say 2 ways to kill plus 1 ko
QI [8k?\]: 2 kills
Nanoc [7k\]: no ko
Malluin [9k\]: 3
flush [2d\]: Q19 ko
kafi94 [11k?\]: Q17
velobici [9k\]: ko is failure in japanese books, counted as sucess in chinese problem books
Bardock [5k\]: no
MM [23k?\]: no.
Malluin [9k\]: is there really a ko ?
MM [23k?\]: there is no ko there.
jotarokung [2d\]: r18 and q17 
]
;B[]C[liangsanbo [3k\]: ko
]
(;W[pc]CR[pc]C[jotarokung [2d\]: q19 is ko
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[pa]CR[pa]C[liangsanbo [3k\]: Q19
]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[na]CR[na]
;W[nb]CR[nb])
(;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[pa]CR[pa]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[oa]CR[oa])
(;W[pa]CR[pa]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: ko
MM [23k?\]: blacit works.
jotarokung [2d\]: p18
MM [23k?\]: it works.
Malluin [9k\]: q17 white
velobici [9k\]: works
MM [23k?\]: oops. typo
QI [8k?\]: only ko
Wagner [1k\]: ko
flush [2d\]: ah
flush [2d\]: not even ko
flush [2d\]: no ko
flush [2d\]: dead
Harleqin [4k\]: p18
lazy [?\]: p18
TonyTiger [7k\]: p18
Kikumaru [12k\]: no ko
]
(;B[oa]CR[oa]C[QI [8k?\]: P18 P19 
SoulDevil [4k?\]: no ko
]
;W[ob]CR[ob]C[flush [2d\]: damn i am not sharp today
])
(;B[ob]CR[ob]C[flush [2d\]: this is ofcourse dead 
flush [2d\]: Q17
TonyTiger [7k\]: Q17 better
]
(;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[na]CR[na]
;W[nb]CR[nb]C[velobici [9k\]: ko!
TonyTiger [7k\]: P19 is bad
]
;B[qa]CR[qa]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: eh
Malluin [9k\]: w q17
]
;W[pc]CR[pc]C[rams [?\]: w q17 b r19
]
;B[oa]CR[oa]C[Malluin [9k\]: no o18
])
(;W[pc]CR[pc]C[kafi94 [11k?\]: it's ko
SoulDevil [4k?\]: dead
bubulle [-\]: R19 
liangsanbo [3k\]: dead
MM [23k?\]: false eye.
Wagner [1k\]: r19
]
(;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[na]CR[na]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: Q17 is better for white
]
;W[nb]CR[nb])
(;B[qa]CR[qa]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: 2-step ko
Pang33rd [?\]: exit and re-enter
velobici [9k\]: best moves given q19 first
liangsanbo [3k\]: p19
flush [2d\]: does studying the amount of ways to kill a single shape really help imprve?
GodRaisty [15k\]: what about p18?
]))))
(;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[pa]CR[pa]C[TonyTiger [7k\]: Q19 
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]C[ericlavine [5k?\]: q19 response lives
guojuan [5p\]: yes flush
]
;B[pc]CR[pc]C[flush [2d\]: ok
guojuan [5p\]: yes
bubulle [-\]: trains reading, so it can't be good
guojuan [5p\]: sure
TonyTiger [7k\]: we have time
guojuan [5p\]: I am here
bubulle [-\]: can't be bad, sorry ;)
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: sometimes killig one way is better for outside flush
astern [?\]: thanks mingjiu
haiku [-\]: yesw
guojuan [5p\]: so we go out here
flush [2d\]: thank you
Hu [8k\]: Thank you MingJiu
MM [23k?\]: always time for GO
guojuan [5p\]: I will open another game
malte [-\]: thanks
flogo [2k\]: th
bananarok [20k?\]: thx
Jael [?\]: thx :)
Stavrogin [9k\]: thanks!
rhubarb [10k\]: thx
Harleqin [4k\]: thanks 
GodRaisty [15k\]: thanks a lot
velobici [9k\]: Thank you very MUCH
liangsanbo [3k\]: thank you
Mukoji [23k?\]: thanx mingjiu! ^_^
mange [11k\]: Thanks!
haiku [-\]: thk you
Kikumaru [12k\]: cheche
jotarokung [2d\]: thx
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: thank you both
borsuk [13k\]: thx :)
DangoMouse [2k\]: thanks MingJiu
Stardust [?\]: thank you
guojuan [5p\]: thanks to Mingjiu Great lesson
TheCooler [9k\]: thx
MM [23k?\]: THANK YOU
dkiller [8k?\]: thanks a lot
vinhxuan [14k\]: thx
MM [23k?\]: =)
grassinger [15k\]: thanks
Ralf [13k\]: thx
Morphi [6k\]: thank you and cu
kafi94 [11k?\]: thank you
TonyTiger [7k\]: You have friendly voice
MM [23k?\]: bye ...
def [?\]: thanks you very much
MM [23k?\]: have a good week.
timewarp [7k\]: this was the first time I was allowed to listen to the commentary of a professional player and it was a very interesting experience. Thank you very much!!!
nanashi0 [?\]: Thank you.
plonk [16k\]: thx
]))))))