(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[2400]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
PW[guojuan]PB[guojuan]WR[5p]BR[5p]DT[2004-11-28]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]AW[ic][lc][rd][qf][qi]AB[nc][qc][pd]C[Spark5309 [11k\]: hi
Codexus [9k\]: Hello, guojuan ^_^
playgo [3k\]: hi
moichido [13k\]: hi
grassinger [15k\]: hi
Bardock [4k\]: hi
Zinc [15k?\]: Hi
Chocobovn [6k\]: hi
Naje [15k\]: hi
Wasserfall [5k\]: hello
Spark5309 [11k\]: hope you're feeling better
dfg [?\]: hello
tibra [12k?\]: hello
Scribe [?\]: You sound much better!
kjp [5k\]: you sound better
moichido [13k\]: hehe 
Grimley [7k?\]: it sais no audio but i hear her clearly
Grimley [7k?\]: funny
Spark5309 [11k\]: yes
Naje [15k\]: yes
Codexus [9k\]: yes
kjp [5k\]: y
rhubarb [11k\]: ok
Lilltiger [19k\]: yes
Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
Scribe [?\]: very good sound
grassinger [15k\]: yes
playgo [3k\]: ok
swilks [5k\]: yes
pepermite [7k\]: ok
rakdver [19k?\]: yes, clear
dfg [?\]: sounds good
Codexus [9k\]: very clear
tibra [12k?\]: yes
spingle [8k\]: crystal clear ;)
moichido [13k\]: audio is fine
agui [5k\]: yes ok
abbadan [17k?\]: yes
moichido [13k\]: yes
dfg [?\]: yes
Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
Naje [15k\]: yes
sojun [?\]: yes
agui [5k\]: yes
]
;B[dp]CR[dp]C[tibra [12k?\]: sure
pel [13k\]: unfortunatuly
]
;AW[dl][cn][bp][hq][kq]AB[cq][fq]TR[lc][nc][qc][pd][qi]C[moichido [13k\]: lol
Scribe [?\]: This shape happens often in our games.
Chocobovn [6k\]: ^^
spingle [8k\]: how would you work something like that out?
]
(;W[rc]CR[rc]C[nicegame [6k\]: s17, too 14,5 pts.
sojun [?\]: maybe it's about komi :p
Scribe [?\]: Just the same, White s17 is 17.5 points.  Mingjiu says 14.5
Scribe [?\]: Either way, very large
]
(;B[aa]CR[aa]
;W[bq]CR[bq])
(;B[rb]CR[rb]C[moichido [13k\]: yes
nicegame [6k\]: s18 makes eye shape
Scribe [?\]: Black tries to make base
rhubarb [11k\]: w q18
moichido [13k\]: q18#
agui [5k\]: q18
Chocobovn [6k\]: q18
jantiff [-\]: hence D8 is attack oriented right ?
]
(;W[pb]CR[pb]C[agui [5k\]: ok
]
(;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[oc]CR[oc]C[moichido [13k\]: p17
]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[nb]CR[nb]C[Scribe [?\]: strong White attack
Scribe [?\]: White will escape
jantiff [-\]: no base :)
moichido [13k\]: no eyes
agui [5k\]: yes
Bardock [4k\]: no base
Spark5309 [11k\]: no base for black
Scribe [?\]: Black is floating without base 
])
(;B[ob]CR[ob]C[Scribe [?\]: P17 will not capture White
Scribe [?\]: P18 is the only move
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]C[Chocobovn [6k\]: 1 eye
]
(;B[pc]CR[pc]C[kjp [5k\]: ha
]
;W[ra]CR[ra]TR[nb][oc])
(;B[ra]CR[ra]C[Scribe [?\]: 2 half eyes for Black
Scribe [?\]: Black must descend
]
(;W[sb]CR[sb]C[Naje [15k\]: yes
agui [5k\]: ok
moichido [13k\]: yes
]
;B[pc]CR[pc]LB[qa:A][sa:B]C[kjp [5k\]: strange things happens at the 18-19 point
Scribe [?\]: Black gets an extra liberty due to the corner, WHite will have to play at T17
]
;W[sa]CR[sa])
(;W[pc]CR[pc]C[Scribe [?\]: Becareful in chosing the direction to decend
]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
(;W[oc]CR[oc]C[moichido [13k\]: no
melany [3k\]: no
sojun [?\]: S15
Bardock [4k\]: s15
Tweenie [-\]: P16
agui [5k\]: p16
nicegame [6k\]: p16
jantiff [-\]: 1-1 is a non reachable liberty of black
Codexus [9k\]: p16
Scribe [?\]: Wonderful squeese
]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[nb]CR[nb]C[dfg [?\]: s15
Bardock [4k\]: q19
moichido [13k\]: p19 ?
hansb [2k\]: Q19
pepermite [7k\]: n18
Tweenie [-\]: white dies
nicegame [6k\]: n18
]
;B[pa]CR[pa]C[Spark5309 [11k\]: p19
Grimley [7k?\]: n18
]
;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[qa]CR[qa])
(;W[od]CR[od]C[Scribe [?\]: White can not P17
]
(;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[pe]CR[pe])
(;B[pe]CR[pe]C[Scribe [?\]: Black can not cut at P17
]
(;W[oe]CR[oe]C[Lilltiger [19k\]: so black cant win if the ladder is bad?
]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
(;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[oc]CR[oc]C[Tweenie [-\]: ladder
jantiff [-\]: ladder
Bardock [4k\]: ladder
moichido [13k\]: ladder
]
;W[pg]CR[pg])
(;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[re]CR[re]C[Scribe [?\]: therefore white must push one more time
Scribe [?\]: Black lives this way
]))
(;W[qe]CR[qe]C[moichido [13k\]: no
Scribe [?\]: If ladder is good for White, White wins
sojun [?\]: no, no ladder
Thoravatar [6k\]: bad ladder
moichido [13k\]: cut
Tweenie [-\]: P15
SudenDeath [-\]: p17
kurf [8k\]: p15
Bardock [4k\]: p15
abbadan [17k?\]: clearp 15
agui [5k\]: p15
li92093 [4k\]: p17
rhubarb [11k\]: so only if ladder is good
]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
(;W[sb]CR[sb]
;B[oc]CR[oc])
(;W[oc]CR[oc]C[Bardock [4k\]: o16
]
;B[nd]CR[nd]C[nicegame [6k\]: o16
moichido [13k\]: o16
]
;W[nb]CR[nb]C[agui [5k\]: o16
li92093 [4k\]: o16
nicegame [6k\]: q19
]
;B[pa]CR[pa]C[sojun [?\]: yes
kjp [5k\]: q19
Ives08 [7k\]: nice
]
;W[oa]CR[oa]C[kurf [8k\]: r19 is better
]
;B[qa]CR[qa]C[Bardock [4k\]: q19
Scribe [?\]: same squeeze
moichido [13k\]: yes
agui [5k\]: yes, very nice
dfg [?\]: yes
])))))))
(;B[pc]TR[pc][qc][pd]C[Scribe [?\]: R18 not good for Black, will be floating
Scribe [?\]: Q17 does not capture White
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[sb]CR[sb]C[moichido [13k\]: black
Bardock [4k\]: black
moichido [13k\]: black dies
])
(;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[ra]CR[ra]C[Scribe [?\]: White wins the fight
]
;W[sb]CR[sb]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[qa]CR[qa]))
(;W[bq]CR[bq]C[Scribe [?\]: THE difference is D7 vs C7
]
;B[br]CR[br]TR[qi][dl]C[hansb [2k\]: short ladder
Lilltiger [19k\]: the ladder?
Scribe [?\]: Black must check ladder to play B2/S18
rhubarb [11k\]: no
moichido [13k\]: nop
Tweenie [-\]: let"s see it
]
;W[dr]CR[dr]
;B[er]CR[er]
;W[cr]CR[cr]
;B[bs]CR[bs]
;W[dq]CR[dq]
;B[cp]CR[cp]
;W[ep]CR[ep]
;B[do]CR[do]C[kjp [5k\]: push
Bardock [4k\]: e5
dfg [?\]: e5
Tweenie [-\]: E5
moichido [13k\]: push again
Scribe [?\]: white must push
pepermite [7k\]: e5
agui [5k\]: e5
Scribe [?\]: black will squeeze and kill white using E5
]
(;W[eo]CR[eo]
;B[dn]CR[dn]
;W[co]CR[co]
;B[eq]CR[eq]C[Bardock [4k\]: e6
jantiff [-\]: ladder is good for w
dfg [?\]: e6
nicegame [6k\]: e6
Chocobovn [6k\]: yeah
flogus [2k?\]: f6 captures
playgo [3k\]: another ladder
]
;W[en]CR[en]C[kjp [5k\]: no ladder
]
;B[dm]CR[dm]C[Chocobovn [6k\]: w win
]
;W[em]CR[em]C[agui [5k\]: a ladder
]
;B[cm]CR[cm]C[Scribe [?\]: now black dies due to the stone at b7 being high
]
;W[bm]CR[bm]C[jantiff [-\]: yes ladder :)
]
;B[cl]CR[cl]
;W[ck]CR[ck]
;B[bl]CR[bl]
;W[bk]CR[bk]TR[dl]C[rhubarb [11k\]: nice:)
moichido [13k\]: yes
sojun [?\]: yes
agui [5k\]: yes
Naje [15k\]: yes
Jael [19k?\]: ok
Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
abbadan [17k?\]: nice
])
(;W[co]CR[co]C[Spark5309 [11k\]: e5
Thoravatar [6k\]: e5
Codexus [9k\]: e5
dfg [?\]: e5
]
;B[eo]CR[eo]C[li92093 [4k\]: e5
ReeZe [15k\]: e5
agui [5k\]: e5
]))
(;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[bq]CR[bq]C[Scribe [?\]: If D7, then B2 not possible, must defend at B3
]
;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
(;B[pc]CR[pc])
(;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[od]CR[od]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[oe]CR[oe]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[oc]CR[oc]C[nicegame [6k\]: if keima instead of 2space jump, b must defend
]
;W[pg]CR[pg]))))
(;W[aa]CR[aa]TR[qi][dl]C[Scribe [?\]: White attacks black group
hmph [4k\]: how do u count out the value?
Scribe [?\]: Black must check ladder and D8 vs C8 before playing B2 in response to White B3
Scribe [?\]: White high at D8 is much greater threat against the Black corner than White low at C8
agui [5k\]: ok
Ives08 [7k\]: lol
]
(;B[rc]CR[rc]
;W[ab]CR[ab]
;B[bq]CR[bq]C[agui [5k\]: yes
moichido [13k\]: yes
Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
Scribe [?\]: This black move is very large, 17.5 points
sojun [?\]: WOW1!!!
moichido [13k\]: nice
nicegame [6k\]: b3 is at least  17,5   points !
Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
guojuan [5p\]: 17,5 points
agui [5k\]: yes
sojun [?\]: extreme
Codexus [9k\]: wow
jantiff [-\]: huge
])
(;B[pf]CR[pf]C[Scribe [?\]: Black Q14 is emergency move
]
;W[qg]CR[qg]
;B[ss]CR[ss]TR[pf]C[Scribe [?\]: R11 being low allows the Black sente at Q14
]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[od]CR[od]C[Snuva [18k\]: P17
Spark5309 [11k\]: p17
hansb [2k\]: S15
playgo [3k\]: P15 
raitai [17k\]: P17
pepermite [7k\]: p15
Bardock [4k\]: p15
Tweenie [-\]: P15
li92093 [4k\]: p1`5
DrizztDo [12k\]: p15
jantiff [-\]: bluge at P15
]
;B[oe]CR[oe]TR[pf][qi]C[jantiff [-\]: bulge* :)
kjp [5k\]: audio off
kjp [5k\]: audio on
Scribe [?\]: Q14 allows tiger at P15
kjp [5k\]: ok
])
(;B[ss]CR[ss]C[Scribe [?\]: helps white stronger
]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
(;W[qg]CR[qg]
;B[rb]CR[rb])
(;W[pg]CR[pg]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[rf]CR[rf]
;B[of]CR[of]
;W[ph]CR[ph]
;B[lf]CR[lf]TR[pf]C[Scribe [?\]: Black has escaped, dont need to eyes in corner any longer
]
;W[bq]CR[bq]
;B[dn]CR[dn]
;W[dm]CR[dm]C[Scribe [?\]: Q14 emergency move when sente needed badly
]
;B[br]CR[br]
;W[dr]CR[dr]
;B[er]CR[er]
;W[cr]CR[cr]
;B[bs]CR[bs]
;W[dq]CR[dq]
;B[cp]CR[cp]
;W[ep]CR[ep]
;B[eo]CR[eo]
;W[co]CR[co]
;B[do]CR[do]
;W[fo]CR[fo]TR[qi][dl][dn]C[Bardock [4k\]: yes
kjp [5k\]: y
agui [5k\]: yes
sojun [?\]: yes
Scribe [?\]: Again the high move, D8, hurts Black greatly
dfg [?\]: yes
rhubarb [11k\]: excelent
Jael [19k?\]: yep
Naje [15k\]: yes
Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
Lilltiger [19k\]: yes
kjp [5k\]: yes
Spark5309 [11k\]: yes
DnF [-\]: yes
Codexus [9k\]: yes
agui [5k\]: yes, very clear
tibra [12k?\]: yes
au2 [2k\]: yes, excellent
Bardock [4k\]: yes
sojun [?\]: yes, then why is the low move also joseki?
Codexus [9k\]: it will be hard to remember everything though ^^
]))
(;B[ab]CR[ab]
;W[rc]CR[rc]C[Grimley [7k?\]: now black can capture a19
])
(;B[gq]CR[gq]C[Scribe [?\]: What conditions allow this move?
Tweenie [-\]: After white B3, could black play F5 ?
Lilltiger [19k\]: when h3 group needs to defend?
Tweenie [-\]: Make sure it is sente ?
rhubarb [11k\]: need ko threats?
Grimley [7k?\]: if l3 is at m3 it is bad?
li92093 [4k\]: white will not make big moyo
Chocobovn [6k\]: l3
au2 [2k\]: is b strong on the other side ?
Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
Thoravatar [6k\]: if it endangers white's group and white has to answer?
agui [5k\]: when it dosent strengten white too much
Chocobovn [6k\]: l3 allow that?
agui [5k\]: yess
Scribe [?\]: The condition for Black to play G3 is that White will not make a big moyo from H4
sojun [?\]: yes
]
(;W[hp]CR[hp]
;B[ss]CR[ss]
;W[bq]CR[bq]C[playgo [3k\]: should b try to work out if taking sent is worth this ?
]
;B[br]CR[br]
;W[dr]CR[dr]C[Scribe [?\]: This is also possible in certain stiuations to retain sente
]
;B[cr]CR[cr]C[jantiff [-\]: breaks connection route
]
;W[eq]CR[eq]C[Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
]
;B[ep]CR[ep]
;W[fr]CR[fr]
;B[gr]CR[gr]C[agui [5k\]: yes white can't connect
])
(;AE[kq]AW[hp][np][pp]C[nicegame [6k\]: g3 only, if w cannot make a big moyo with h4
])
(;TR[kq]
;W[hp]CR[hp]C[Scribe [?\]: white is stronger, but small gain
nicegame [6k\]: w is overconcentrated now
jantiff [-\]: so, if it doesn't give w too good a shape you can play the butt
moichido [13k\]: emergency move
mmm1 [?\]: need w to answer g3?
])
(;AE[kq]AW[jq]C[Spark5309 [11k\]: yes
Scribe [?\]: Perfect time to play G3, white is so close
Lifespace [22k\]: what's moyo again?
]
(;W[hp]CR[hp]C[agui [5k\]: much better
Chocobovn [6k\]: ^^
sojun [?\]: lol, black owns white :)
Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
Codexus [9k\]: yes
Naje [15k\]: yes
Bardock [4k\]: yes
agui [5k\]: yes
])
(;W[ab]CR[ab]
;B[rc]CR[rc]C[nicegame [6k\]: w may answer g3 with h2 --> gote for b ?
]
;W[nb]CR[nb]
(;B[mb]CR[mb]
;W[mc]CR[mc]C[spingle [8k\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/ <- has definition of moyo
sojun [?\]: yes
agui [5k\]: yes
]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[nd]CR[nd]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[lb]CR[lb])
(;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[nd]CR[nd])
(;B[oc]CR[oc]C[Scribe [?\]: This knight's move make the strong Black stronger yet, it is okay. White gets outside strength, more useful
zephi [6k\]: nice explaination :)
Chocobovn [6k\]: no question
sojun [?\]: how is G3 sente?
Tweenie [-\]: After B3 could blackplay F5
agui [5k\]: no question
]))))))