(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[mingjiu]PB[mingjiu]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2005-01-02]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[ReeZe [15k\]: hi
MadFerret [-\]: hi
GMF [10k?\]: hello. happy new year
Bardock [4k\]: yes
Celila [-\]: hi ;-)
smudge [12k\]: hi!
swilks [6k\]: hi
Harriman [3k\]: hi
avalange [?\]: hi
Mop [12k?\]: hi
projo [8k\]: hi
MysticoN [29k?\]: hello
pedro69 [13k?\]: hi
NEWS [10k\]: hi
logik [12k?\]: hello
playgo [4k\]: hi
Bodo212 [14k\]: hallo
ihgo [8k\]: hello
playm8 [5k?\]: hi
agui [7k\]: Hello
abbadan [?\]: hello
MadFerret [-\]: happy new year
Celila [-\]: we are here ;D
cemo [?\]: hello
Zanthia [?\]: hi
guojuan [5p\]: we hear you
jbb [16k\]: hello and a happy new year
MysticoN [29k?\]: Happe new year
Scribe [?\]: Nihao Laoshi!
Celila [-\]: thx to you too ^^
Woodstock [-\]: happy new year!
XiaoLin [2k\]: hi, Happy New Year everyone
smuin [?\]: happy new year
playm8 [5k?\]: happy new year
vince [6k\]: hi happy new year
tibra [10k?\]: happy new year
agui [7k\]: Happy new year !!
seidelin [8k\]: hi
kyo [8k\]: happy new year
Ives08 [9k\]: too easy for white...
agui [7k\]: yes
monchacha [11k\]: yes 4
]
(;B[pp]CR[pp]
;W[dd]CR[dd]C[monchacha [11k\]: still hohoho
]
;B[pc]CR[pc]C[Scribe [?\]: Game between two 4d players
Celila [-\]: 4d game
]
;W[dp]CR[dp]
;B[pi]CR[pi]C[avalange [?\]: 4d game
Scribe [?\]: If worried about the top approach the bottom first and vice versa
]
(;W[nq]CR[nq]TR[qd][qe][qf][qg]C[Scribe [?\]: High Chinese Fuseki
XiaoLin [2k\]: oh, didn't see much of high-chinese lately
atman [5k\]: in the game there was a white stone that was not yet captured
]
(;B[pn]CR[pn]
;W[jp]CR[jp]
;B[jd]CR[jd]
;W[pe]CR[pe]
;B[nd]CR[nd]
;W[qc]CR[qc]C[Scribe [?\]: O3 played to induce this series of moves to allow white to invade the top right
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[qd]CR[qd]
;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[qg]CR[qg])
(;B[jp]CR[jp]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: go to the East if you want to attack West and vice-versa ^_^
]
;W[qn]CR[qn]C[Scribe [?\]: Black should pincer tight against White o3
Weirdsel [7k\]: R3
Nesco [9k?\]: O4
Wuschelein [3k\]: O4 
playgo [4k\]: P5 
projo [8k\]: r3
agui [7k\]: q6
seidelin [8k\]: o4
hansb [3k?\]: O4
MysticoN [29k?\]: P6 ?
NEWS [10k\]: q5?
FLgator [5k\]: O4
ligo [8k\]: p5
Weirdsel [7k\]: P3 / R5 could be posible as well....
swilks [6k\]: what about r9 here for white rather than p5?
]
(;B[no]CR[no]C[Scribe [?\]: Hard for Black to continue after O5
avalange [?\]: why did i not think of that?
]
;W[qq]CR[qq]C[Scribe [?\]: Black at M3
XiaoLin [2k\]: r4?
Scribe [?\]: Still good for White
Scribe [?\]: Better than the game for Black, but still good for White
XiaoLin [2k\]: yes, if played by Takemiya Masaki ^_^
]
(;B[pq]CR[pq]
;W[qp]CR[qp]
;B[po]CR[po]
;W[qr]CR[qr]
;B[pr]CR[pr]TR[pi]C[Woodstock [-\]: isn't that not so good in relation to Q11?
agui [7k\]: good for white
Harriman [3k\]: w
Woodstock [-\]: good for w
Wuschelein [3k\]: good for white
avalange [?\]: white
au2 [2k\]: w
hansb [3k?\]: good for white
playgo [4k\]: good for white
seidelin [8k\]: good for white
Kumquat [1k\]: white
MysticoN [29k?\]: white
XiaoLin [2k\]: W has sente and B has some bad aji
jbb [16k\]: black good
Wuschelein [3k\]: k4 to near to thickness
Ives08 [9k\]: good for W... Q11 seems a bit useless
Scribe [?\]: Result is better for White.  Black wall faces the wrong direction
zee [5k?\]: for W
Scribe [?\]: Black q11 is inefficient
Harriman [3k\]: bottom
kjp [6k\]: B is overconcentrated
agui [7k\]: gone in the wind
Scribe [?\]: the Black moyo is gone
moichido [14k\]: does 9p mean 9d professional ?
]
;W[md]CR[md]C[Harriman [3k\]: y
playm8 [5k?\]: yes
]
(;B[pe]CR[pe]C[spingle [9k\]: yes
]
;W[jd]CR[jd]TR[qi][ri]C[avalange [?\]: p=perfect
Scribe [?\]: White is better in bottom right
])
(;B[jd]CR[jd]
;W[pe]CR[pe]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[of]CR[of]
;B[ne]CR[ne]
;W[pd]CR[pd]C[kjp [6k\]: table shape
]
(;B[oc]CR[oc]C[ndkrempel [7k\]: white r17
XiaoLin [2k\]: isn't o17 usual
Harriman [3k\]: p16 or o17
XiaoLin [2k\]: to get some of the corner
kolben [1k?\]: shicho?
brx [15k?\]:  w p16
]
;W[od]CR[od]
;B[nd]CR[nd]C[playgo [4k\]: cut through ?
]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
(;B[mc]CR[mc]
;W[nb]CR[nb]
;B[mb]CR[mb]C[Scribe [?\]: P17 wrong move.  Joseki is O17.  O17 possible only if ladder works for Black
])
(;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[nf]CR[nf]C[zee [5k?\]: game
]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[qb]CR[qb]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: as in WAGC on pro commented, exceltently played joseki, but wrong one :)
Wuschelein [3k\]: lol
EnliBikal [12k\]: S18 ?
agui [7k\]: s18
ndkrempel [7k\]: s18
XiaoLin [2k\]: can't be punished in 1-2 moves
]
(;W[og]CR[og]C[zee [5k?\]: how to punish B?
Scribe [?\]: White P13 fails to punish
]
(;B[rc]CR[rc]C[Scribe [?\]: Black R18 error
zee [5k?\]: game
]
(;W[mg]CR[mg]
;B[pf]CR[pf])
(;W[qd]CR[qd]
;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[mg]CR[mg]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[qf]CR[qf]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: standard*
]
;B[ng]CR[ng]
;W[nh]CR[nh]
;B[oh]CR[oh]C[Scribe [?\]: its easy Mingjiu says
agui [7k\]: yes, nice again !
playm8 [5k?\]: yes
XiaoLin [2k\]: standar combination
]
;W[pg]CR[pg]C[Celila [-\]: hehe.. for you maybe ;-)
]
;B[mh]CR[mh]C[Scribe [?\]: wow
Bodo212 [14k\]: ok
]))
(;B[ng]CR[ng]C[playm8 [5k?\]: one has to learn how to punish mistakes
]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[pb]CR[pb]C[Nesco [9k?\]: how does he remember the whole game? :P
]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[mb]CR[mb]C[playm8 [5k?\]: cool explanation
]
(;W[oh]CR[oh]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: even a 4d can remember a game
Scribe [?\]: Still good for White
Sanka [13k\]: it was a real game between two pros ?
Scribe [?\]: Black moyo is gone
playm8 [5k?\]: 2 4d amateurs
]
;B[le]CR[le]C[Nesco [9k?\]: nice!
]
;W[nh]CR[nh]C[kjp [6k\]: no
])
(;W[nh]CR[nh]C[Sanka [13k\]: hey i can remember a game :p
NEWS [10k\]: what is tenuki?
]
;B[le]CR[le]C[NEWS [10k\]: i see thx :)
]
(;W[ph]CR[ph]C[Grimley [8k\]: play somewhere else
playm8 [5k?\]: playing elsewhere
Wuschelein [3k\]: play elsewhere
]
;B[oi]CR[oi]C[kjp [6k\]: tenuki = play elsewhere
]
;W[oh]CR[oh])
(;W[oh]CR[oh]LB[ph:B][oi:A]C[Celila [-\]: ^^
XiaoLin [2k\]: n15
jbb [16k\]: to play elsewhere
zee [5k?\]: good for B
Woodstock [-\]: black's whole chinese is in pieces!
Grimley [8k\]: black has to defend o16?
Scribe [?\]: White Q12 bad,  gives black a sente move at P11
Grimley [8k\]: is white n15 dangerous?
Bardock [4k\]: yes
XiaoLin [2k\]: no
]))))
(;W[rb]CR[rb]C[Scribe [?\]: Black played wrong move. How to punish Black ? 
]
;B[qd]CR[qd]C[Scribe [?\]: S18 punishes
]
;W[rc]CR[rc]C[Scribe [?\]: S18 urgent
]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[mb]CR[mb]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[na]CR[na]
;W[lb]CR[lb]
;B[pa]CR[pa]
;W[kc]CR[kc]TR[of]
(;B[jc]CR[jc]C[avalange [?\]: woooow
Sanka [13k\]: wow
playgo [4k\]: very nice
]
;W[jb]CR[jb]C[agui [7k\]: yes, nice !
]
;B[ib]CR[ib]C[Scribe [?\]: B lack dead in top
Celila [-\]: nice*
]
;W[kd]CR[kd]C[Celila [-\]: very niche
])
(;B[kd]CR[kd]C[playm8 [5k?\]: lol
]
;W[ic]CR[ic]))))
(;B[nc]CR[nc]C[agui [7k\]: yes
Javaness [6k\]: looks like a mistake
Woodstock [-\]: P17 is joseki, too
kyrilin [21k\]: it's too small?
])))
(;B[qp]CR[qp]C[ReeZe [15k\]: also bad
]
;W[pq]CR[pq]C[ndkrempel [7k\]: k4 not well positioned?
]
;B[op]CR[op]
;W[oq]CR[oq]C[FLgator [5k\]: better
kjp [6k\]: better
ligo [8k\]: still 3 w corners
NEWS [10k\]: better for b
playgo [4k\]: better for black 
Woodstock [-\]: better because upper right corner is b
Harriman [3k\]: k4 out of place
ReeZe [15k\]: balck isnt really able to build his myo
GMF [10k?\]: hmm.. the white stone can make some trouble!
agui [7k\]: better but k4 bad positioned
cemo [?\]: k4 inefficient
XiaoLin [2k\]: q11 too far
]))
(;B[qq]CR[qq]C[Javaness [6k\]: black must split 
au2 [2k\]: Q6
Harriman [3k\]: atari will give forcing moves
GrandYan [9k\]: Always?
agui [7k\]: no
projo [8k\]: yes
ndkrempel [7k\]: if p5, can cut?
GrandYan [9k\]: Yes.
zee [5k?\]: not much
BEsquirrel [5k\]: no
goglu [-\]: yes, but be ready to fight
kolben [1k?\]: go seigen suggestion
Woodstock [-\]: no, b is shut in the corner
agui [7k\]: good idea
playgo [4k\]: is K4 a good move ?
playm8 [5k?\]: yes
NEWS [10k\]: yes
]
(;W[no]CR[no]
;B[pn]CR[pn])
(;W[oo]CR[oo]C[agui [7k\]: yes
zee [5k?\]: yes
Celila [-\]: yes
]
;B[op]CR[op]C[ndkrempel [7k\]: push and cut?
Harriman [3k\]: y
kyrilin [21k\]: yes... my worry
]
;W[np]CR[np]
;B[no]CR[no]
;W[on]CR[on]
;B[mo]CR[mo]
;W[pr]CR[pr]C[kyrilin [21k\]: ah...yes
]
;B[qr]CR[qr]
;W[pq]CR[pq]
;B[ro]CR[ro]C[agui [7k\]: s6
XiaoLin [2k\]: no
]
(;W[rn]CR[rn])
(;W[qo]CR[qo]
;B[qp]CR[qp]
;W[rn]CR[rn]
;B[lq]CR[lq])
(;W[lq]CR[lq]C[Scribe [?\]: White must defend first
]
;B[lp]CR[lp]
;W[kq]CR[kq]
;B[rn]CR[rn]C[Scribe [?\]: to get enough libertiese
agui [7k\]: yes
Scribe [?\]: allows Black to fight
])))
(;B[np]CR[np]C[NEWS [10k\]: P5
galopin [12k?\]: hit the strong stone to return on the weak
vince [6k\]: q6
zee [5k?\]: Q6
XiaoLin [2k\]: I wonder what Takemiya Masak would play here :)
FLgator [5k\]: Q6
ndkrempel [7k\]: r3?
XiaoLin [2k\]: Masaki*
goglu [-\]: try R3
agui [7k\]: yes
]
;W[mp]CR[mp]
;B[no]CR[no]
;W[qq]CR[qq]C[playgo [4k\]: the white stones have a lot of aji
]
(;B[oq]CR[oq]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: obviously k4 is the source of all problems
]
;W[qp]CR[qp]C[swilks [6k\]: r4
Scribe [?\]: NO
Woodstock [-\]: no
]
;B[mo]CR[mo]C[ndkrempel [7k\]: white
XiaoLin [2k\]: W
agui [7k\]: white
hansb [3k?\]: white!!!
swilks [6k\]: w
NEWS [10k\]: would the other way be better?
ReeZe [15k\]: white
playm8 [5k?\]: i love white
GrandYan [9k\]: None...
Harriman [3k\]: w
zee [5k?\]: W better
kjp [6k\]: B is a little overconcentrated
NEWS [10k\]: w better
])
(;B[qp]CR[qp]
;W[pq]CR[pq]C[agui [7k\]: better
]
;B[oq]CR[oq]
;W[or]CR[or]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: almost
]
;B[op]CR[op]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: k4 was like "pass" move
]
;W[mr]CR[mr]
;B[mo]CR[mo]
;W[lp]CR[lp]TR[qn]C[ReeZe [15k\]: only good if b can kill s6
]
(;B[ql]CR[ql]
;W[lo]CR[lo])
(;B[kn]CR[kn]
;W[qk]CR[qk]C[agui [7k\]: no
Harriman [3k\]: n
ndkrempel [7k\]: not great
ReeZe [15k\]: never
Bardock [4k\]: no
abbadan [?\]: Why? r 6 needs help
playm8 [5k?\]: no
XiaoLin [2k\]: the problem is that both sides of Q4 stone are too open
NEWS [10k\]: no
zee [5k?\]: No
playm8 [5k?\]: still love white
Woodstock [-\]: also not good
Scribe [?\]: Black does not have time to kill the White stone at R6
])))
(;B[oo]CR[oo]C[agui [7k\]: q6
Weirdsel [7k\]: but makes the rest weak I think...
Scribe [?\]: Not good
Scribe [?\]: P5 not good
Celila [-\]: if black can kill the stone at o3, black looks good - but it's very hard to kill, so this shape isn't a nice shape for black ;-)
]
;W[qq]CR[qq]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: I can't understand how come B has so much trouble here if it is said that Koreans didn't find good counter moves only against high-chinese
]
(;B[qp]CR[qp]
;W[pq]CR[pq]
;B[mp]CR[mp]
;W[mq]CR[mq]
;B[lp]CR[lp]
;W[qk]LB[pj:A]TR[pi][qk]C[Bardock [4k\]: no
kjp [6k\]: no
zee [5k?\]: no
BrunnenG [16k?\]: naaaa
agui [7k\]: not much
Celila [-\]: ^^
Javaness [6k\]: i like it
Wuschelein [3k\]: you are a squirrel :)
Scribe [?\]: Still not good for Black, would be better if Black Q11 was at Q10. White has enough room to expand and create base
])
(;B[pq]CR[pq]
;W[qp]CR[qp]
;B[pm]CR[pm]
;W[qm]CR[qm]
;B[pl]CR[pl]TR[nq]
;W[lp]CR[lp]C[ReeZe [15k\]: very hard to kill
kjp [6k\]: killling is difficult
Scribe [?\]: If Black can kill White o3, Mingjiu likes Black, but white can run with M4
]))
(;B[pn]CR[pn]C[galopin [12k?\]: atari is allways a bad move
]
;W[pm]CR[pm]
;B[on]CR[on]
;W[qq]CR[qq]C[GMF [10k?\]: R5 ?!
]
(;B[pq]CR[pq]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: r5
])
(;B[qo]CR[qo]
;W[pq]CR[pq]C[Celila [-\]: I was wondering the same, goglu
]
;B[om]CR[om]LB[np:A]C[agui [7k\]: better
ndkrempel [7k\]: not great
XiaoLin [2k\]: nothing goo, B always ends in gote
zee [5k?\]: B has to block at R5
playgo [4k\]: looks even
ndkrempel [7k\]: k4 still not well positioned
Harriman [3k\]: better for b than before
Woodstock [-\]: good for b
XiaoLin [2k\]: good*
goglu [-\]: how do you know to play P7 or atari ?
Scribe [?\]: Better than previous, this is playable for Black
Harriman [3k\]: k4 still a problem
])))
(;B[lq]CR[lq]
;W[qq]CR[qq]C[cart158 [12k?\]: black has better wall
]
;B[qp]CR[qp]
;W[pq]CR[pq]C[Scribe [?\]: Compare to the joseki shape
]
;B[op]CR[op]
;W[nr]CR[nr]C[Scribe [?\]: Which is  better for Black...this or the game.  This is better
]
;B[mo]CR[mo]C[Scribe [?\]: This is joseki
rhubarb [8k\]: this one
playm8 [5k?\]: joseki
agui [7k\]: this is better
jbb [16k\]: black wall faces better in 2nd example
Woodstock [-\]: this one
seidelin [8k\]: this
NEWS [10k\]: this one
XiaoLin [2k\]: B's moyo too open
Bardock [4k\]: this one
playgo [4k\]: this is worse
GMF [10k?\]: this one is much better
zee [5k?\]: this is better for B
avalange [?\]: this
]))
(;W[md]CR[md]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[jd]CR[jd]
;B[jp]CR[jp]
;W[qn]CR[qn]
;B[qo]CR[qo]C[Celila [-\]: yes, it is ;-)
]
;W[pn]CR[pn]
;B[np]CR[np]
;W[qk]CR[qk]C[Bardock [4k\]: yes
tibra [10k?\]: yes
Celila [-\]: yes
abbadan [?\]: yes
NEWS [10k\]: yes
]))
(;B[rc]CR[rc]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: b plays just m14
]
;W[rd]CR[rd]C[zee [5k?\]: yes but 
Scribe [?\]: Homework review
]
;B[qc]CR[qc]
;W[qd]CR[qd]
;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[oc]CR[oc]C[XiaoLin [2k\]: oh... I missed the last class :(((((((
]
;B[aa]CR[aa]
(;W[nb]CR[nb]C[moichido [14k\]: 4 ways to kill there are
]
;B[ab]CR[ab]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[db]CR[db]C[moichido [14k\]: SHOUT ;)
]
;W[rf]CR[rf]C[hansb [3k?\]: four
agui [7k\]: 4
moichido [14k\]: 4WAYS !!!!
Bardock [4k\]: 4
Grimley [8k\]: dont shout moichido
])
(;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[ab]CR[ab]
;W[mb]CR[mb]
;B[ac]CR[ac]
;W[lc]CR[lc]
;B[ad]CR[ad]
;W[rf]CR[rf]C[moichido [14k\]: and still there was 4 ways
agui [7k\]: Also 4 ways
hansb [3k?\]: still four ways
Scribe [?\]: How many ways can White kill Black?
playm8 [5k?\]: and how many ways for black to kill white? :/
GrandYan [9k\]: 0? :)
Weirdsel [7k\]: 0
EnliBikal [12k\]: lol
abbadan [?\]: none
Ives08 [9k\]: lol
Restore [11k\]: only 1 - to make him laugh to death ;)
rhubarb [8k\]: still 4?
GrandYan [9k\]: I only see 1..
Scribe [?\]: T18 second way to kill Black
]
(;B[ae]CR[ae]C[Ives08 [9k\]: ;
playgo [4k\]: wrong color :-)
]
(;W[sc]CR[sc]C[Scribe [?\]: T17 first way to kill Black
]
;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[rb]CR[rb]C[abbadan [?\]: no
]
;W[pa]CR[pa]C[moichido [14k\]: it works
]
;B[ob]CR[ob]C[MysticoN [29k?\]: of course it does'
]
;W[oa]CR[oa]C[MysticoN [29k?\]: two eyes
])
(;W[sb]CR[sb]
;B[sc]CR[sc]C[abbadan [?\]: t 18 for w
agui [7k\]: kills
]
;W[rb]CR[rb]C[Woodstock [-\]: bless you ;)
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]C[Wuschelein [3k\]: god bless you :)
]
;W[pa]CR[pa])
(;W[qb]CR[qb]C[Woodstock [-\]: kills, too
moichido [14k\]: kills
NEWS [10k\]: kills
Scribe [?\]: R18 third way to kill  Black
])
(;W[pa]CR[pa]C[agui [7k\]: works
moichido [14k\]: works
monchacha [11k\]: work
Nesco [9k?\]: works
abbadan [?\]: yes
hansb [3k?\]: works
monchacha [11k\]: so is 5 way
playgo [4k\]: P18 P19 O19 
NEWS [10k\]: doesn't work?
Bardock [4k\]: doesn't
Bardock [4k\]: p18
Bardock [4k\]: b
rhubarb [8k\]: worked when i did it
FLgator [5k\]: No. doesn't work
Scribe [?\]: Q19 does not work if Black plays at P18
agui [7k\]: ahhhh
zee [5k?\]: only 3 ways
moichido [14k\]: p18
Grimley [8k\]: p18 is ko?
Bardock [4k\]: no
playm8 [5k?\]: does it ever happen a pro learns from teaching l&d?
]
(;B[oa]CR[oa]C[Sanka [13k\]: work
]
;W[sc]CR[sc]C[Sanka [13k\]: r 18
]
;B[sb]CR[sb]C[hansb [3k?\]: P18
]
;W[qb]CR[qb])
(;B[ob]CR[ob]C[agui [7k\]: p19
playm8 [5k?\]: sheer luck?
kjp [6k\]: p19
hansb [3k?\]: O18
melany [3k\]: T18
FLgator [5k\]: No
]
(;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[na]CR[na])
(;W[sc]CR[sc]C[goglu [-\]: T18
Celila [-\]: s18?
Nesco [9k?\]: now R18 is no false eye
NEWS [10k\]: S18?
]
;B[rb]CR[rb]C[kyrilin [21k\]: t18
Celila [-\]: ;-)
]
;W[qa]CR[qa]
;B[sb]CR[sb])
(;W[qb]CR[qb]C[Celila [-\]: yes
]
(;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[oa]CR[oa])
(;B[qa]CR[qa])))))
(;B[qb]CR[qb]))))