(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[mingjiu]PB[mingjiu]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2005-01-23]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[TonyTiger [5k\]: oh hello
balance [3k\]: i know is thicker
]
;B[rc]CR[rc]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: hi
au2 [2k\]: hello
]
;W[pc]CR[pc]C[EroSennin [9k\]: hi
balance [3k\]: hullo
]
;B[qc]CR[qc]C[BMarley [5k\]: hi
copperhead [9k\]: hi
]
;W[pd]CR[pd]C[wrong [1d?\]: homework!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EroSennin [9k\]: mingjiu
MysticoN [24k\]: homework time ?? :D
KungFused [8k\]: hi
Xanthus [13k\]: hi
jas [15k?\]: hi
]
;B[qd]CR[qd]C[zeijinOne [16k\]: hi
jbb [15k\]: hi
]
;W[qe]CR[qe]C[Meccano [15k\]: hello
]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[qf]CR[qf]C[wrong [1d?\]: Nia hao minjiu sifu
Jolanda [?\]: hi
Uvas [-\]: i cant hear
]
;B[sd]CR[sd]C[gogy [9k\]: hi , no audio
]
;W[rf]CR[rf]C[nutcase [1k\]: ming jiu laoshi hao
zviratko [12k\]: no sound
]
;B[aa]CR[aa]C[zeijinOne [16k\]: no audio?
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: no sound yet haha
Jolanda [?\]: no sound
z41n3 [20k\]:  no audio ?
]
;W[pb]CR[pb]C[glint [12k?\]: he's not talking yep :P
Uvas [-\]: oh
playm8 [7k?\]: yes
Liquid [16k\]: yes
BMarley [5k\]: yes
Xris [7k\]: yes
revo [16k\]: yes
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: a19?? wow! must be high class moves
copperhead [9k\]: yes
kjp [6k\]: low
jcbrookly1 [?\]: yes
EroSennin [9k\]: sound coming 
Jolanda [?\]: yes
Uvas [-\]: yes
BloodMoon [6k\]: ok
z41n3 [20k\]: yes
Klops [12k\]: yes
nothingman [?\]: ok
krneki [10k\]: yes
Xanthus [13k\]: yes
olczyk [16k\]: yes
Meccano [15k\]: Fine
wrong [1d?\]: ok, sound ^^
agui [7k\]: yes
Kronstadt [19k?\]: yes
Maxad19 [12k?\]: yes
balance [3k\]: sound weak
MysticoN [24k\]: white must play S18
Ildefonse [10k\]: i dont hear
BrunnenG [17k\]: sound is low
MysticoN [24k\]: S18
Jolanda [?\]: weak sound
MysticoN [24k\]: :D
Scribe [?\]: yes we can hear fine (could be a little louder)
kjp [6k\]: low sounf
MysticoN [24k\]: S18
nutcase [1k\]: not very loud...
Bardock [5k\]: good morning
MysticoN [24k\]: yes
wrong [1d?\]: if exclude T13, there are 4 moves for KO
agui [7k\]: Good evening
MysticoN [24k\]: S18
MysticoN [24k\]: ØD
balance [3k\]: need more connections to strenth it
zeijinOne [16k\]: yes
TonyTiger [5k\]: yes
Bardock [5k\]: yes
krneki [10k\]: s18
balance [3k\]: ye
MysticoN [24k\]: s18
MysticoN [24k\]: :D
Namii [-\]: just turn your volume higher TT
Scribe [?\]: Homework
nutcase [1k\]: mic not function well...
wrong [1d?\]: 4 ways
MysticoN [24k\]: s18 best way I think
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: 4?
wrong [1d?\]: excluding T13
nutcase [1k\]: S19 ko :)
Scribe [?\]: How many ways for White to kill this Black
wrong [1d?\]: S18 best
EroSennin [9k\]: s18?
wrong [1d?\]: and T14
nutcase [1k\]: yep
EroSennin [9k\]: straight and easy
nutcase [1k\]: same, both ko
Xris [7k\]: I only see three
wrong [1d?\]: T18 too
MysticoN [24k\]: 18
MysticoN [24k\]: :p
nutcase [1k\]: 2 ways to kill
Bardock [5k\]: 3 ko's
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: 4
TonyTiger [5k\]: 0
wrong [1d?\]: W can get only ko
balance [3k\]: 1 way to kill
]
;B[ab]CR[ab]C[balance [3k\]: three to ko
nutcase [1k\]: S19 works as well
wrong [1d?\]: T18 possible
Ildefonse [10k\]: t18 same as s19
wrong [1d?\]: and t14
nutcase [1k\]: t18?
spingle [9k\]: t14
spingle [9k\]: t14 furst
wrong [1d?\]: T14
]
(;W[rb]CR[rb]C[Akamaru [6k\]: s18 ko..
Scribe [?\]: S18 is ko
Ameise [8k\]: s19 ko
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[qa]CR[qa]
;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[sa]CR[sa]C[MysticoN [24k\]: dead
]
;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[sc]CR[sc]C[nutcase [1k\]: ko
TonyTiger [5k\]: :(
MysticoN [24k\]: :D
])
(;W[ra]CR[ra]C[wrong [1d?\]: s19 the same
Scribe [?\]: S19 is ko, but worse for white...white must make first threat
]
;B[qa]CR[qa]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[rb]CR[rb]C[wrong [1d?\]: ko
wrong [1d?\]: T18 too
]
;W[sb]CR[sb]C[nutcase [1k\]: T18
Namii [-\]: now b has to make the first threat
nutcase [1k\]: so S18 better
]
;B[sa]CR[sa]C[Namii [-\]: w*
Xris [7k\]: this is worse
Namii [-\]: the previous ko was better
TonyTiger [5k\]: :)
balance [3k\]: worse for white
nutcase [1k\]: this is inferior
Xris [7k\]: White can't capture immediately
])
(;W[sb]CR[sb]C[Meccano [15k\]: Yes
Scribe [?\]: T18 is also ko, also worse for white than s18
]
(;B[qb]CR[qb]C[zviratko [12k\]: dead
]
;W[sf]CR[sf]C[nutcase [1k\]: dead
Xris [7k\]: tilt
])
(;B[rb]CR[rb]C[Jubjub [17k\]: yes
krneki [10k\]: yes
EroSennin [9k\]: yes
]
;W[sf]CR[sf]
;B[se]CR[se]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: yes
zorbas [18k?\]: yes
Xris [7k\]: yes
]
;W[ra]CR[ra]C[nutcase [1k\]: ko
wrong [1d?\]: agree
]
;B[qa]CR[qa]C[TonyTiger [5k\]: yes. the 1st one is the best
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]C[nutcase [1k\]: b take 1st
TonyTiger [5k\]: nice :)
nutcase [1k\]: so 3 ways to kill?
wrong [1d?\]: T14 is the 4th way
nutcase [1k\]: hmm
]))
(;W[sf]CR[sf]C[krneki [10k\]: t14
balance [3k\]: ko
nutcase [1k\]: same as prev
Scribe [?\]: T14 is the best move
]
;B[se]CR[se]C[nutcase [1k\]: T18
]
;W[rb]CR[rb]C[MysticoN [24k\]: S18
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[qa]CR[qa]C[nutcase [1k\]: same
]
;B[ra]CR[ra]C[nutcase [1k\]: both ko
]
;W[sa]CR[sa]
;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[sc]CR[sc]C[Xris [7k\]: nice
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: T14 S19 ?
EnliBikal [11k\]: nice
]
;B[ac]CR[ac]C[wrong [1d?\]: instead of t15
ratata [4k\]: T18 S18, worse ko...
]
(;W[rd]CR[rd]TR[sf]C[wrong [1d?\]: B can T18 instead of T15????
glint [12k?\]: no aji left
Namii [-\]: repeen 8D
Scribe [?\]: If white wins this ko, white kills all the black stones
nutcase [1k\]: for sure
Wibren [12k?\]: what about w t14   b t18?
TonyTiger [5k\]: nice thinking
lobster [7k\]: problem nr 2 : can white kill a19 group? :)
wrong [1d?\]: how about B t18
])
(;W[ad]CR[ad]
;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[ae]CR[ae]
;B[ra]CR[ra]TR[sf]C[olczyk [16k\]: But can't you save T14 for a ko threat?
wrong [1d?\]: W still good ^_^
TonyTiger [5k\]: nice
kjp [6k\]: + 3 move elsewhere
wrong [1d?\]: yes
krneki [10k\]: ok
Ildefonse [10k\]: y3
agui [7k\]: yes
BMarley [5k\]: yes
playm8 [7k?\]: yes
Bardock [5k\]: yes
jas [15k?\]: ok yep
Meccano [15k\]: Yes
EroSennin [9k\]: yes
wrong [1d?\]: no T14 aji
zeijinOne [16k\]: yes
Jubjub [17k\]: yes
Scribe [?\]: If black wins the ko, white at least has sealed off the right side
glint [12k?\]: B alive but shut in solid :)
nutcase [1k\]: S18 still the best
]
;W[sq]CR[sq]
(;B[rq]CR[rq])
(;B[rr]CR[rr]
;W[rq]CR[rq]C[Akamaru [6k\]: there is a mean streak to us go players, we like killing things
]
;B[sr]CR[sr]
(;W[rs]CR[rs])
(;W[qp]CR[qp]
;B[qq]CR[qq]C[Liquid [16k\]: yeah XD
]
;W[rp]CR[rp]
;B[pr]CR[pr]C[TonyTiger [5k\]: is this joseki?
]
;W[pp]CR[pp]
;B[rs]CR[rs]
;W[oq]CR[oq]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: heaven forbid ;>
]
;B[af]CR[af]C[nutcase [1k\]: tsumego 
]
;W[or]CR[or]C[spingle [9k\]: are you a tiger?
swordsplay [8k\]: lol
Bardock [5k\]: yes
kjp [6k\]: p1
balance [3k\]: yes
wrong [1d?\]: P1
nutcase [1k\]: tenuki
MysticoN [24k\]: Q3
nutcase [1k\]: nono
wrong [1d?\]: P1
nutcase [1k\]: Q1
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: p1
Ildefonse [10k\]: q1 p4 p1
nutcase [1k\]: wait
balance [3k\]: p1
hontego [6k\]: p1
playgo [4k\]: P1 
Bardock [5k\]: q1
krneki [10k\]: p1
gogy [9k\]: r2
cemo [22k?\]: p1
playm8 [7k?\]: P1 indeed
nutcase [1k\]: Q3
wrong [1d?\]: or Q1
EnliBikal [11k\]: r2?
nesepi [6k\]: q1
Klops [12k\]: r2
KungFused [8k\]: p1
Bardock [5k\]: p1
Stav [7k\]: p1
glint [12k?\]: lol
agui [7k\]: p1
Scribe [?\]: How many ways and what is the best way to kill this black in the bottom rihght
Kezaar [23k\]: p1
MysticoN [24k\]: ah
JoJoGo [9k\]: I think R2
MysticoN [24k\]: Q1
TonyTiger [5k\]: Q3
wrong [1d?\]: P1 if somewhere big ko emerges
nutcase [1k\]: Q3 for sure
MysticoN [24k\]: Q1
z41n3 [20k\]: q1 q3 r1 r2
MysticoN [24k\]: !!
MysticoN [24k\]: :p
Namii [-\]: R1
kjp [6k\]: I take the simple move p1
goglu [-\]: p1
Xris [7k\]: Q1
weezou [11k\]: P1 also
Centurion [8k\]: r2
Wibren [12k?\]: q1 seems good
janine [?\]: p1
MysticoN [24k\]: Q1
Xris [7k\]: no furtherko threats
nutcase [1k\]: yep P1 works as well
Liquid [16k\]: <.< * 
jbb [15k\]: r2 also killing
MysticoN [24k\]: :D
]
;B[ag]CR[ag]C[janine [?\]: haha
wrong [1d?\]: we have to count threats if ko happens somewhere
lobster [7k\]: q1 must be the best
krneki [10k\]: sound problems
glint [12k?\]: dual purpose move
]
(;W[pq]CR[pq])
(;W[qr]CR[qr]C[nutcase [1k\]: R2 leave abit of ko threas
])
(;W[ps]CR[ps]C[kjp [6k\]: no aji, that B can connect later
Liquid [16k\]: yo some sound problems
Namii [-\]: lol
Scribe [?\]: P1 allows white to kill and also helps with the outside.  P1 is more efficient
Stav [7k\]: if you have sound problems, restart the demo...
nutcase [1k\]: Q1 one less ko threat
jbb [15k\]: p1 best, sente
Aristocles [13k?\]: good one
Xris [7k\]: why he is still p 1 better
wrong [1d?\]: yes
agui [7k\]: yes
au2 [2k\]: do you have to worry about how many ko threats left behind ?
nutcase [1k\]: sente?
kjp [6k\]: yes
Jubjub [17k\]: yes
Scribe [?\]: you must find the most efficient way to play....the way that achieves the largest number of different goals
krneki [10k\]: yes
hikaru144 [24k\]: yeah
playm8 [7k?\]: P1 is not sente
Meccano [15k\]: yes
MysticoN [24k\]: why is p1 better ?
cropette [3k\]: yes
nutcase [1k\]: u always die in sente...
])
(;W[os]CR[os]C[z41n3 [20k\]: r1 works too
nutcase [1k\]: yep, 4 ways, cool
balance [3k\]: the thicker shape
nutcase [1k\]: P1 maybe the best
ivoSF [4k\]: does this not give black one more ko threat?
TonyTiger [5k\]: black has 2 ko threats now?
Xris [7k\]: no black gets one more threat
balance [3k\]: is sound ok=?
balance [3k\]: is the difference so big mingjiu?
atman [4k\]: what about ko threatsw?
wrong [1d?\]: P1 better, butleaves more ko threats to B?????
atman [4k\]: threats
cocoon [9k\]: one more points with p 1
balance [3k\]: betwen q1 and p1
playgo [4k\]: more solid
]))))))