(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[mingjiu]PB[mingjiu]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2005-01-23]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[TonyTiger [5k\]: oh hello
balance [3k\]: i know is thicker
lobster [7k\]: can you replay moveorder plx
]
(;B[rc]CR[rc]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: hi
au2 [2k\]: hello
]
;W[pc]CR[pc]C[EroSennin [9k\]: hi
balance [3k\]: hullo
]
;B[qc]CR[qc]C[BMarley [5k\]: hi
copperhead [9k\]: hi
]
;W[pd]CR[pd]C[wrong [1d?\]: homework!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EroSennin [9k\]: mingjiu
MysticoN [24k\]: homework time ?? :D
KungFused [8k\]: hi
Xanthus [13k\]: hi
jas [15k?\]: hi
]
;B[qd]CR[qd]C[zeijinOne [16k\]: hi
jbb [15k\]: hi
]
;W[qe]CR[qe]C[Meccano [15k\]: hello
]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[qf]CR[qf]C[wrong [1d?\]: Nia hao minjiu sifu
Jolanda [?\]: hi
Uvas [-\]: i cant hear
]
;B[sd]CR[sd]C[gogy [9k\]: hi , no audio
]
;W[rf]CR[rf]C[nutcase [1k\]: ming jiu laoshi hao
zviratko [12k\]: no sound
]
;B[aa]CR[aa]C[zeijinOne [16k\]: no audio?
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: no sound yet haha
Jolanda [?\]: no sound
z41n3 [20k\]:  no audio ?
]
;W[pb]CR[pb]C[glint [12k?\]: he's not talking yep :P
Uvas [-\]: oh
playm8 [7k?\]: yes
Liquid [16k\]: yes
BMarley [5k\]: yes
Xris [7k\]: yes
revo [16k\]: yes
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: a19?? wow! must be high class moves
copperhead [9k\]: yes
kjp [6k\]: low
jcbrookly1 [?\]: yes
EroSennin [9k\]: sound coming 
Jolanda [?\]: yes
Uvas [-\]: yes
BloodMoon [6k\]: ok
z41n3 [20k\]: yes
Klops [12k\]: yes
nothingman [?\]: ok
krneki [10k\]: yes
Xanthus [13k\]: yes
olczyk [16k\]: yes
Meccano [15k\]: Fine
wrong [1d?\]: ok, sound ^^
agui [7k\]: yes
Kronstadt [19k?\]: yes
Maxad19 [12k?\]: yes
balance [3k\]: sound weak
MysticoN [24k\]: white must play S18
Ildefonse [10k\]: i dont hear
BrunnenG [17k\]: sound is low
MysticoN [24k\]: S18
Jolanda [?\]: weak sound
MysticoN [24k\]: :D
Scribe [?\]: yes we can hear fine (could be a little louder)
kjp [6k\]: low sounf
MysticoN [24k\]: S18
nutcase [1k\]: not very loud...
Bardock [5k\]: good morning
MysticoN [24k\]: yes
wrong [1d?\]: if exclude T13, there are 4 moves for KO
agui [7k\]: Good evening
MysticoN [24k\]: S18
MysticoN [24k\]: ØD
balance [3k\]: need more connections to strenth it
zeijinOne [16k\]: yes
TonyTiger [5k\]: yes
Bardock [5k\]: yes
krneki [10k\]: s18
balance [3k\]: ye
MysticoN [24k\]: s18
MysticoN [24k\]: :D
Namii [-\]: just turn your volume higher TT
Scribe [?\]: Homework
nutcase [1k\]: mic not function well...
wrong [1d?\]: 4 ways
MysticoN [24k\]: s18 best way I think
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: 4?
wrong [1d?\]: excluding T13
nutcase [1k\]: S19 ko :)
Scribe [?\]: How many ways for White to kill this Black
wrong [1d?\]: S18 best
EroSennin [9k\]: s18?
wrong [1d?\]: and T14
nutcase [1k\]: yep
EroSennin [9k\]: straight and easy
nutcase [1k\]: same, both ko
Xris [7k\]: I only see three
wrong [1d?\]: T18 too
MysticoN [24k\]: 18
MysticoN [24k\]: :p
nutcase [1k\]: 2 ways to kill
Bardock [5k\]: 3 ko's
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: 4
TonyTiger [5k\]: 0
wrong [1d?\]: W can get only ko
balance [3k\]: 1 way to kill
]
;B[ab]CR[ab]C[balance [3k\]: three to ko
nutcase [1k\]: S19 works as well
wrong [1d?\]: T18 possible
Ildefonse [10k\]: t18 same as s19
wrong [1d?\]: and t14
nutcase [1k\]: t18?
spingle [9k\]: t14
spingle [9k\]: t14 furst
wrong [1d?\]: T14
]
(;W[rb]CR[rb]C[Akamaru [6k\]: s18 ko..
Scribe [?\]: S18 is ko
Ameise [8k\]: s19 ko
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[qa]CR[qa]
;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[sa]CR[sa]C[MysticoN [24k\]: dead
]
;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[sc]CR[sc]C[nutcase [1k\]: ko
TonyTiger [5k\]: :(
MysticoN [24k\]: :D
])
(;W[ra]CR[ra]C[wrong [1d?\]: s19 the same
Scribe [?\]: S19 is ko, but worse for white...white must make first threat
]
;B[qa]CR[qa]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[rb]CR[rb]C[wrong [1d?\]: ko
wrong [1d?\]: T18 too
]
;W[sb]CR[sb]C[nutcase [1k\]: T18
Namii [-\]: now b has to make the first threat
nutcase [1k\]: so S18 better
]
;B[sa]CR[sa]C[Namii [-\]: w*
Xris [7k\]: this is worse
Namii [-\]: the previous ko was better
TonyTiger [5k\]: :)
balance [3k\]: worse for white
nutcase [1k\]: this is inferior
Xris [7k\]: White can't capture immediately
])
(;W[sb]CR[sb]C[Meccano [15k\]: Yes
Scribe [?\]: T18 is also ko, also worse for white than s18
]
(;B[qb]CR[qb]C[zviratko [12k\]: dead
]
;W[sf]CR[sf]C[nutcase [1k\]: dead
Xris [7k\]: tilt
])
(;B[rb]CR[rb]C[Jubjub [17k\]: yes
krneki [10k\]: yes
EroSennin [9k\]: yes
]
;W[sf]CR[sf]
;B[se]CR[se]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: yes
zorbas [18k?\]: yes
Xris [7k\]: yes
]
;W[ra]CR[ra]C[nutcase [1k\]: ko
wrong [1d?\]: agree
]
;B[qa]CR[qa]C[TonyTiger [5k\]: yes. the 1st one is the best
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]C[nutcase [1k\]: b take 1st
TonyTiger [5k\]: nice :)
nutcase [1k\]: so 3 ways to kill?
wrong [1d?\]: T14 is the 4th way
nutcase [1k\]: hmm
]))
(;W[sf]CR[sf]C[krneki [10k\]: t14
balance [3k\]: ko
nutcase [1k\]: same as prev
Scribe [?\]: T14 is the best move
]
;B[se]CR[se]C[nutcase [1k\]: T18
]
;W[rb]CR[rb]C[MysticoN [24k\]: S18
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[qa]CR[qa]C[nutcase [1k\]: same
]
;B[ra]CR[ra]C[nutcase [1k\]: both ko
]
;W[sa]CR[sa]
;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[sc]CR[sc]C[Xris [7k\]: nice
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: T14 S19 ?
EnliBikal [11k\]: nice
]
;B[ac]CR[ac]C[wrong [1d?\]: instead of t15
ratata [4k\]: T18 S18, worse ko...
]
(;W[rd]CR[rd]TR[sf]C[wrong [1d?\]: B can T18 instead of T15????
glint [12k?\]: no aji left
Namii [-\]: repeen 8D
Scribe [?\]: If white wins this ko, white kills all the black stones
nutcase [1k\]: for sure
Wibren [12k?\]: what about w t14   b t18?
TonyTiger [5k\]: nice thinking
lobster [7k\]: problem nr 2 : can white kill a19 group? :)
wrong [1d?\]: how about B t18
])
(;W[ad]CR[ad]
;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[ae]CR[ae]
;B[ra]CR[ra]TR[sf]C[olczyk [16k\]: But can't you save T14 for a ko threat?
wrong [1d?\]: W still good ^_^
TonyTiger [5k\]: nice
kjp [6k\]: + 3 move elsewhere
wrong [1d?\]: yes
krneki [10k\]: ok
Ildefonse [10k\]: y3
agui [7k\]: yes
BMarley [5k\]: yes
playm8 [7k?\]: yes
Bardock [5k\]: yes
jas [15k?\]: ok yep
Meccano [15k\]: Yes
EroSennin [9k\]: yes
wrong [1d?\]: no T14 aji
zeijinOne [16k\]: yes
Jubjub [17k\]: yes
Scribe [?\]: If black wins the ko, white at least has sealed off the right side
glint [12k?\]: B alive but shut in solid :)
nutcase [1k\]: S18 still the best
]
;W[sq]CR[sq]
(;B[rq]CR[rq])
(;B[rr]CR[rr]
;W[rq]CR[rq]C[Akamaru [6k\]: there is a mean streak to us go players, we like killing things
]
;B[sr]CR[sr]
(;W[rs]CR[rs])
(;W[qp]CR[qp]
;B[qq]CR[qq]C[Liquid [16k\]: yeah XD
]
;W[rp]CR[rp]
;B[pr]CR[pr]C[TonyTiger [5k\]: is this joseki?
]
;W[pp]CR[pp]
;B[rs]CR[rs]
;W[oq]CR[oq]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: heaven forbid ;>
]
;B[af]CR[af]C[nutcase [1k\]: tsumego 
]
;W[or]CR[or]C[spingle [9k\]: are you a tiger?
swordsplay [8k\]: lol
Bardock [5k\]: yes
kjp [6k\]: p1
balance [3k\]: yes
wrong [1d?\]: P1
nutcase [1k\]: tenuki
MysticoN [24k\]: Q3
nutcase [1k\]: nono
wrong [1d?\]: P1
nutcase [1k\]: Q1
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: p1
Ildefonse [10k\]: q1 p4 p1
nutcase [1k\]: wait
balance [3k\]: p1
hontego [6k\]: p1
playgo [4k\]: P1 
Bardock [5k\]: q1
krneki [10k\]: p1
gogy [9k\]: r2
cemo [22k?\]: p1
playm8 [7k?\]: P1 indeed
nutcase [1k\]: Q3
wrong [1d?\]: or Q1
EnliBikal [11k\]: r2?
nesepi [6k\]: q1
Klops [12k\]: r2
KungFused [8k\]: p1
Bardock [5k\]: p1
Stav [7k\]: p1
glint [12k?\]: lol
agui [7k\]: p1
Scribe [?\]: How many ways and what is the best way to kill this black in the bottom rihght
Kezaar [23k\]: p1
MysticoN [24k\]: ah
JoJoGo [9k\]: I think R2
MysticoN [24k\]: Q1
TonyTiger [5k\]: Q3
wrong [1d?\]: P1 if somewhere big ko emerges
nutcase [1k\]: Q3 for sure
MysticoN [24k\]: Q1
z41n3 [20k\]: q1 q3 r1 r2
MysticoN [24k\]: !!
MysticoN [24k\]: :p
Namii [-\]: R1
kjp [6k\]: I take the simple move p1
goglu [-\]: p1
Xris [7k\]: Q1
weezou [11k\]: P1 also
Centurion [8k\]: r2
Wibren [12k?\]: q1 seems good
janine [?\]: p1
MysticoN [24k\]: Q1
Xris [7k\]: no furtherko threats
nutcase [1k\]: yep P1 works as well
Liquid [16k\]: <.< * 
jbb [15k\]: r2 also killing
MysticoN [24k\]: :D
]
;B[ag]CR[ag]C[janine [?\]: haha
wrong [1d?\]: we have to count threats if ko happens somewhere
lobster [7k\]: q1 must be the best
krneki [10k\]: sound problems
glint [12k?\]: dual purpose move
]
(;W[pq]CR[pq])
(;W[qr]CR[qr]C[nutcase [1k\]: R2 leave abit of ko threas
])
(;W[ps]CR[ps]C[kjp [6k\]: no aji, that B can connect later
Liquid [16k\]: yo some sound problems
Namii [-\]: lol
Scribe [?\]: P1 allows white to kill and also helps with the outside.  P1 is more efficient
Stav [7k\]: if you have sound problems, restart the demo...
nutcase [1k\]: Q1 one less ko threat
jbb [15k\]: p1 best, sente
Aristocles [13k?\]: good one
Xris [7k\]: why he is still p 1 better
wrong [1d?\]: yes
agui [7k\]: yes
au2 [2k\]: do you have to worry about how many ko threats left behind ?
nutcase [1k\]: sente?
kjp [6k\]: yes
Jubjub [17k\]: yes
Scribe [?\]: you must find the most efficient way to play....the way that achieves the largest number of different goals
krneki [10k\]: yes
hikaru144 [24k\]: yeah
playm8 [7k?\]: P1 is not sente
Meccano [15k\]: yes
MysticoN [24k\]: why is p1 better ?
cropette [3k\]: yes
nutcase [1k\]: u always die in sente...
])
(;W[os]CR[os]C[z41n3 [20k\]: r1 works too
nutcase [1k\]: yep, 4 ways, cool
balance [3k\]: the thicker shape
nutcase [1k\]: P1 maybe the best
ivoSF [4k\]: does this not give black one more ko threat?
TonyTiger [5k\]: black has 2 ko threats now?
Xris [7k\]: no black gets one more threat
balance [3k\]: is sound ok=?
balance [3k\]: is the difference so big mingjiu?
atman [4k\]: what about ko threatsw?
wrong [1d?\]: P1 better, butleaves more ko threats to B?????
atman [4k\]: threats
cocoon [9k\]: one more points with p 1
balance [3k\]: betwen q1 and p1
playgo [4k\]: more solid
]))))))
(;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[dp]CR[dp]C[balance [3k\]: but the difference seems small
]
;B[pp]CR[pp]C[wrong [1d?\]: real game now ¼_¼
]
;W[dd]CR[dd]
;B[fc]CR[fc]
;W[cf]CR[cf]C[au2 [2k\]: how strong are the players?
Scribe [?\]: delete first branch it is in previous file (20050123-mingjiu-a.sgf)
]
;B[jd]CR[jd]C[bison [10k\]: kobayashi
Snuva [13k\]: lobster options -> view offline
balance [3k\]: good till now
]
(;W[pf]CR[pf]C[jcbrookly1 [?\]: white should pincer here !!!
Lamrin [11k\]: this mistiake
lobster [7k\]: oh thx
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: no
bison [10k\]: ok
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: no mistake
rusakko [6k\]: no mistake
Xris [7k\]: nor
balance [3k\]: no
apitoo [4k\]: no
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: common ans
zeijinOne [16k\]: q 14
]
;B[oe]CR[oe]C[nutcase [1k\]: u mean b pincer?
jcbrookly1 [?\]: pincer
playgo [4k\]: perhaps worng
balance [3k\]: good
agui [7k\]: good
rhubarb [8k\]: strange
nutcase [1k\]: R12?
Scribe [?\]: moyo preventing move white q11
plonk [27k?\]: bad
jas [15k?\]: r14
]
;W[of]CR[of]C[nutcase [1k\]: P15 is fine
balance [3k\]: yes
Nexo [2k\]: it's too close white wall
]
;B[pe]CR[pe]C[nutcase [1k\]: build moyo
]
;W[qf]CR[qf]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: black Q15 bad, = pushing from behind, white should now reply Q15?
TonyTiger [5k\]: :)
balance [3k\]: yes
zee [8k\]: S16
balance [3k\]: me
Bardock [5k\]: lol
]
(;B[nf]CR[nf]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: push from beghind
zee [8k\]: After O14, W cannot hane because B will block at R15
Scribe [?\]: because black can play A (p12) or B (q12) to attack white stones
nutcase [1k\]: got it
Scribe [?\]: white r15 makes black stronger
balance [3k\]: cut
Darkheart [12k\]: s16
Nexo [2k\]: r9
kjp [6k\]: s16
agui [7k\]: S16
lobster [7k\]: o15
wrong [1d?\]: tenuki :)))))))))))
nutcase [1k\]: dying
MysticoN [24k\]: hahahaha
zee [8k\]: this is th way W should play
Stav [7k\]: XD
playgo [4k\]: :-)
MysticoN [24k\]: tired today mingjiu ? :D
]
(;W[qe]CR[qe]C[EnliBikal [11k\]: O14 instead of R15 ?
krneki [10k\]: r15?
Scribe [?\]: white must not play o13
Darkheart [12k\]: s16 ?
kjp [6k\]: bad 
nutcase [1k\]: R16
krneki [10k\]: bad
Nexo [2k\]: o13?
olczyk [16k\]: O15
]
;B[qd]CR[qd]C[wrong [1d?\]: kouichi???????
krneki [10k\]: no aji left
jas [15k?\]: heavy
agui [7k\]: better S16
atman [4k\]: forces black into good shape
zee [8k\]: bad for W
]
(;W[qk]CR[qk]
;B[ng]CR[ng]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: good for black
nutcase [1k\]: O13 very big
au2 [2k\]: good for b
krneki [10k\]: good for black
nutcase [1k\]: certainly b better
atman [4k\]: black is very happy
plonk [27k?\]: b ok
Bodo212 [14k\]: I like black
Scribe [?\]: white needs another move on the right
playgo [4k\]: very good for b
agui [7k\]: equal
nutcase [1k\]: R9 shd play O13?
Liquid [16k\]: White R6
Bodo212 [14k\]: r 15
wrong [1d?\]: W's 3 stones gain not much
lobster [7k\]: replay once
jcbrookly1 [?\]: w should hav pincered
wrong [1d?\]: W helped B get the top
Ildefonse [10k\]: white O15
Ildefonse [10k\]: better
bison [10k\]: w needs o13
Meccano [15k\]: W should have run to center
z41n3 [20k\]: q10
Ildefonse [10k\]: instead of R15
spingle [9k\]: p14
Ildefonse [10k\]: white O15 instead of R15
rusakko [6k\]: W O14
Lamrin [11k\]: p14
Ildefonse [10k\]: hane at black
swordsplay [8k\]: r14?
MysticoN [24k\]: R14 mistake ?
balance [3k\]: o13
jantiff [7k\]: cut O15
balance [3k\]: is too big
swilks [6k\]: r15 bad
nutcase [1k\]: R14 got option to play O14 too
Xris [7k\]: why it should have played o14
rusakko [6k\]: R 15 mistake?
Scribe [?\]: very very good for black, white still must fix the right side
MysticoN [24k\]: white should play O14 instead of R14
swordsplay [8k\]: maybe o14 instead of 14?
wrong [1d?\]: R11?
hontego [6k\]: q12
nutcase [1k\]: R14 mistake maybe, not sure
TonyTiger [5k\]: R11 
agui [7k\]: Q12
apitoo [4k\]: r12
FLgator [4k\]: R9 is a mistake?
balance [3k\]: q12
lobster [7k\]: o15 instead of r9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kjp [6k\]: P14 is bad
Uvas [-\]: q12
taudrilly [19k\]: r12?
weezou [11k\]: R11 ?
fosil [-\]: q10?
revo [16k\]: R11
jcbrookly1 [?\]: q11
balance [3k\]: ?
hansb [2k?\]: Q12
brx [14k\]: r11
rusakko [6k\]: Q12
jbb [15k\]: yq17
KungFused [8k\]: q12
Ildefonse [10k\]: Q11?
goglu [-\]: Q12
wrong [1d?\]: or Q11?
krneki [10k\]: q12
cocoon [9k\]: r10 ?
MysticoN [24k\]: R14 messed up for  white
agui [7k\]: q12
rhubarb [8k\]: r11
nutcase [1k\]: Q12
glint [12k?\]: Q12
L2 [1d?\]: Q12 
]
(;W[pi]CR[pi]C[lobster [7k\]: r9 was bad I think
nothingman [?\]: r15?
])
(;W[]C[spingle [9k\]: r12
Namii [-\]: J5 
Namii [-\]: H11 
Namii [-\]: L8 
TonyTiger [5k\]: yes
gogy [9k\]: r15 was a mistake=o13
Scribe [?\]: Ming jiu click on top level in diagram
Scribe [?\]: directly above current red mark
kjp [6k\]: move 1 back, and take other line
Namii [-\]: ...
nutcase [1k\]: need more practise on the game tree
Namii [-\]: This is useless for me
playgo [4k\]: white kakari at Q15 better ?
]
(;B[pi]CR[pi]C[Namii [-\]: oh you stopped already
agui [7k\]: q12
]
;W[ri]CR[ri]C[Namii [-\]: I thought we were spamming random coordinates
nutcase [1k\]: hmm
TonyTiger [5k\]: oh
bison [10k\]: r12
nutcase [1k\]: can tenuki
Scribe [?\]: too easy for white to connect
nothingman [?\]: r12 then
Lamrin [11k\]: r 11
Scribe [?\]: this is thank you move, not punishment
])
(;B[qi]CR[qi]C[idunnoyou3 [9k\]: R12 
balance [3k\]: yes
]
;W[ph]CR[ph]
;B[pj]CR[pj]C[Scribe [?\]: this is punishment for whites tenuki
agui [7k\]: aha
Scribe [?\]: splits white into two weak groups
Scribe [?\]: game will finish early
nutcase [1k\]: w Q10?
])
(;B[]C[Namii [-\]: bye =>
])))
(;W[ng]CR[ng]C[glint [12k?\]: help B make shape 
]
;B[mf]CR[mf]))
(;W[ng]CR[ng]
(;B[qe]CR[qe]LB[oh:A][ph:B]C[kufr [23k?\]: c10?
kufr [23k?\]: or c9
Scribe [?\]: white is short liberties here
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: white resign?
])
(;B[mf]CR[mf]C[idunnoyou3 [9k\]: black still look gd to me....
TonyTiger [5k\]: wow
]
;W[rd]CR[rd]C[Scribe [?\]: white r15 is a thank you move
Scribe [?\]: white s16 is correcdt
]))
(;W[rd]CR[rd]C[hansb [2k?\]: O15
Nexo [2k\]: ?
Darkheart [12k\]: lol
balance [3k\]: very bad for white
DrGoPlayer [4k\]: fight good for b
nutcase [1k\]: O13
]
(;B[ph]CR[ph]C[idunnoyou3 [9k\]: xiao ling lu is a evil opening....
nutcase [1k\]: O13
Nexo [2k\]: NO
Scribe [?\]: Mingjiu prefers this move (o13) to black n15 should white cut at o15
nutcase [1k\]: w can R17
glint [12k?\]: to close
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: P12 ?
])
(;B[ng]CR[ng]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[pi]CR[pi]LB[jd:A]TR[pb][pc][oe][pe][nf][ng]C[zee [8k\]: W should play this way
starline [6k\]: better for w?
nutcase [1k\]: even result
nutcase [1k\]: i prefer b
zviratko [12k\]: too close
nutcase [1k\]: at J16 better...
wrong [1d?\]: A in the middle ^_^
weezou [11k\]: would be better at J16
nutcase [1k\]: hmm
Scribe [?\]: This result is much better for white than all the previous.
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: black still gd i think
zee [8k\]: Even though B has a strong wall, K16 is too close
starline [6k\]: o15 aji
nutcase [1k\]: but b can F15?
Scribe [?\]: Black k16 is too close to blacks strength, better to be at j16
Jolanda [?\]: no sound?
nutcase [1k\]: hmm, still w better
wrong [1d?\]: so, K16 was a mistake sifu?????????????????????????
im2bad4U [12k\]: :(
kjp [6k\]: a lot of variations
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: K16 == xiao ling lu?
swilks [6k\]: is white q15 reasonable response to p15?
nutcase [1k\]: b can play J16 too
gogy [9k\]: kyus can cut...
nutcase [1k\]: modified version of kobayashi style :)
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: yes!
weezou [11k\]: ok
playm8 [7k?\]: yes
nutcase [1k\]: audio feed is cut
glint [12k?\]: good 
Jolanda [?\]: ok
Meccano [15k\]: Fine
Lamrin [11k\]: ok
jas [15k?\]: ok
Bodo212 [14k\]: ok
Lamrin [11k\]: good
nutcase [1k\]: server overloaded i guess
apitoo [4k\]: ok, thx
wrong [1d?\]: homework????????????????????????
im2bad4U [12k\]: hmm right
playgo [4k\]: does Q11 hurt the hoshi stone ?
zee [8k\]: ok, thanks
EnliBikal [11k\]: yep
wrong [1d?\]: thank you sifu
gogy [9k\]: thanks
au2 [2k\]: thanks to ING FOUNDATION
agui [7k\]: Thank you very much
jas [15k?\]: thank you
Xanthus [13k\]: thanks
MysticoN [24k\]: thnx
Centurion [8k\]: thx
agui [7k\]: See you
au2 [2k\]: thankk you
nutcase [1k\]: thx, mingjiu laoshi :)
Lamrin [11k\]: thank you
glint [12k?\]: memorise all the variations of these joseki as homework? :P
au2 [2k\]: thanks to Scribe
swilks [6k\]: thank you.
weezou [11k\]: thx very much
Aristocles [13k?\]: thank you!
Hikari [24k\]: thank you
guojuan [5p\]: yes
rhubarb [8k\]: thx
Harriman [3k\]: thanks
jas [15k?\]: thank you
guojuan [5p\]: I am here
Stav [7k\]: thanks!
copperhead [9k\]: thank you 
Bodo212 [14k\]: bye
tibra [10k?\]: thank you
Out [14k?\]: Thank You 謝謝
im2bad4U [12k\]: :D
Bardock [5k\]: thx
gargantua [28k?\]: thx
richieb [22k\]: ty
critti [26k\]: thx
playm8 [7k?\]: thx
manakem10 [-\]: THX
uncoil [14k\]: thank you
Meccano [15k\]: Thank you very much
playm8 [7k?\]: cya
tiger1 [8k\]: thx
olczyk [16k\]: No homework?
z41n3 [20k\]: thx
Mario111 [16k\]: tschüss
guojuan [5p\]: I will open a game now
krneki [10k\]: thank you very much!
Scribe [?\]: Xiexie Mingjiu laoshi
zviratko [12k\]: thx
balance [3k\]: thank you
gargantua [28k?\]: thx
Xris [7k\]: think you very much in an
Hikari [24k\]: thx
Kezaar [23k\]: yhank you !
glint [12k?\]: thx
guojuan [5p\]: thanks to mingjiu
teroon [19k?\]: thank you
SecondMoon [13k\]: thx
Liquid [16k\]: cu
Kezaar [23k\]: thank you !
Taiteki [10k?\]: thx!
mandy [16k?\]: thanks
Hikari [24k\]: thank you
starline [6k\]: thx
guojuan [5p\]: ys
copperhead [9k\]: bye
Meccano [15k\]: Bye
guojuan [5p\]: yes
weezou [11k\]: bye
]))
(;W[ne]CR[ne]C[idunnoyou3 [9k\]: why????
nutcase [1k\]: N15
nutcase [1k\]: sure die
Scribe [?\]: white CAN NOT cut
Ildefonse [10k\]: b 013
]
(;B[me]CR[me]C[zviratko [12k\]: O13
]
;W[nd]CR[nd]C[nutcase [1k\]: no chance for survival here
]
;B[md]CR[md])
(;B[ng]CR[ng]C[nutcase [1k\]: big fight
])))
(;B[qe]CR[qe]C[nutcase [1k\]: strange shape
]
(;W[nf]CR[nf])
(;W[ng]CR[ng]C[swilks [6k\]: no
playgo [4k\]: hane O15 ?
goglu [-\]: no
tarragone [15k\]: weird
jas [15k?\]: no
agui [7k\]: no
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: dunno....
Xris [7k\]: looks submissive
gogy [9k\]: yes
balance [3k\]: o14 for black
krneki [10k\]: no
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: confuse....
]))
(;B[ne]CR[ne]))
(;W[qf]CR[qf]C[Scribe [?\]: Mingjiu in all these Black seems to get too much on the top, no?
]
;B[pe]CR[pe]C[nutcase [1k\]: Q14 oso
nutcase [1k\]: attacking alive group is bad...
nutcase [1k\]: 2 space?
]
(;W[rd]CR[rd]TR[qh]C[kufr [23k?\]: to take territory
nutcase [1k\]: shd write em off as pro then :P
zee [8k\]: So B Q12 not good for B
]
(;B[ph]CR[ph]C[Scribe [?\]: black has two pincers available
nutcase [1k\]: this not so good for b
TonyTiger [5k\]: no
playgo [4k\]: no
Ildefonse [10k\]: no
wrong [1d?\]: this one is better I think
zeijinOne [16k\]: no
krneki [10k\]: no
balance [3k\]: no
Stav [7k\]: no
MysticoN [24k\]: R12 is better for  black ?=
hansb [2k?\]: yes
swordsplay [8k\]: q14
Xris [7k\]: no
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: no
nutcase [1k\]: K16 too near
jantiff [7k\]: some lines...
Scribe [?\]: black pincers at q12 and r12
MysticoN [24k\]: than Q12 
agui [7k\]: is q14 possible , for Black ?
krneki [10k\]: please
tarragone [15k\]: please show
zeijinOne [16k\]: yes
playgo [4k\]: please
pel [14k?\]: yes please
Xris [7k\]: yes please
swilks [6k\]: yes
Meccano [15k\]: Please
jas [15k?\]: yes
Nexo [2k\]: q14
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: i dunno.... :S
playm8 [7k?\]: how should white punish black?
]
;W[pf]CR[pf]C[Nexo [2k\]: r15
]
(;B[of]CR[of]
;W[og]CR[og]
;B[pg]CR[pg]
;W[oe]CR[oe]
;B[nf]CR[nf]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[qe]CR[qe]C[Nexo [2k\]: this is bad for black
]
;B[ne]CR[ne]C[balance [3k\]: why?
wrong [1d?\]: maybe, some 1-2p :)
]
;W[oc]CR[oc]C[balance [3k\]: eat
]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[pb]CR[pb]TR[jd]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[pd]CR[pd]C[nutcase [1k\]: lump shape
]
;W[nd]CR[nd]
;B[oe]CR[oe]C[Xris [7k\]: wow
]
;W[rb]CR[rb]C[Ildefonse [10k\]: lol
zviratko [12k\]: dango
TonyTiger [5k\]: wow
]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[Nexo [2k\]: too close to k16
]
;W[ob]CR[ob]C[MysticoN [24k\]: Looks like black got a happy meal at mcdonalds
nutcase [1k\]: yep
agui [7k\]: A
swilks [6k\]: f15
]
;B[md]CR[md]LB[id:A][kk:B]TR[jd]C[nutcase [1k\]: big dango
goglu [-\]: looks good for white
swordsplay [8k\]: looks good for black
Nexo [2k\]: white is happy
spingle [9k\]: and b
Xris [7k\]: they sell dumplings at a McDonald's?
nutcase [1k\]: too good for w
EroSennin [9k\]: nah w is bad too
balance [3k\]: good for black now
Ildefonse [10k\]: big corner
hansb [2k?\]: black is overconcentrated
krneki [10k\]: this is ok for black?
agui [7k\]: too many stones for black
playgo [4k\]: b is open on both sides
weezou [11k\]: joseki
Liquid [16k\]: hmm McDonalds 
spingle [9k\]: b
Xris [7k\]: White
nutcase [1k\]: P13 not dead yet
goglu [-\]: I like white
Stav [7k\]: joseki = good for both..
EroSennin [9k\]: w is bad..sealed up
TonyTiger [5k\]: black is beautiful
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: black???
jas [15k?\]: p18 is good aji
Ildefonse [10k\]: black big center influence
krneki [10k\]: if its joseki its good for both...
kjp [6k\]: B has bad shape
jbb [15k\]: god for b
glint [12k?\]: B has a ponuki and the Top
wrong [1d?\]: who wins the game, it means it was better for him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MysticoN [24k\]: :p
Darkheart [12k\]: lol
jantiff [7k\]: w is shut in, but b has poor shape at top
bison [10k\]: black is heavy
jcbrookly1 [?\]: good for white
rhubarb [8k\]: like b
Akamaru [6k\]: certainly not heavy
EroSennin [9k\]: poor shape is ok as long as it sevrve it purpse
Ildefonse [10k\]: joseki is nog always good for both...
Ildefonse [10k\]: only locally
Darkheart [12k\]: if it does fit the situation
Fallafel [3k\]: some sequnce being joseki does not guarantee that both get equal shares :)
EnliBikal [11k\]: white is sente
Scribe [?\]: joseki by definition is equal....application may be inappropriate
Bodo212 [14k\]: aha
TonyTiger [5k\]: oh
kjp [6k\]: B can easily get overconcentrated
Scribe [?\]: as is the case here
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: i;m easy confuse on stones closest
Scribe [?\]: Black k16 is inefficient
bison [10k\]: where does w play now?
apitoo [4k\]: funny
nutcase [1k\]: maybe K4
wrong [1d?\]: A?
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: K16 is xiao ling lu?
spingle [9k\]: d18
Nexo [2k\]: f15
Xris [7k\]: get 15f15
balance [3k\]: e15?
jantiff [7k\]: w's move :)
jas [15k?\]: f25
Xris [7k\]: oh
tarragone [15k\]: i guess
]
;W[]TR[jd]C[balance [3k\]: understood
zeijinOne [16k\]: ok
Scribe [?\]: black should not use this joseki when black has a stone at k16
kjp [6k\]: ok
TonyTiger [5k\]: yes
Xris [7k\]: yes
Nexo [2k\]: yes
krneki [10k\]: yes
nutcase [1k\]: yes
weezou [11k\]: yes
apitoo [4k\]: y
agui [7k\]: clear
TonyTiger [5k\]: of course
Lamrin [11k\]: yes
zeijinOne [16k\]: yes
wrong [1d?\]: yes
jas [15k?\]: yes
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: confuse....
]
;B[fe]CR[fe]TR[jd]C[Xris [7k\]: heh
Scribe [?\]: better to have black k16 stone at j16
nutcase [1k\]: w still got N18
nutcase [1k\]: still some reduction for w
])
(;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[of]CR[of]C[MysticoN [24k\]: N15
nutcase [1k\]: yeah
zee [8k\]: good for W
nutcase [1k\]: b is no good
]))
(;B[qh]CR[qh]
;W[pf]CR[pf]
(;B[qe]CR[qe]C[Nexo [2k\]: r15?
nutcase [1k\]: S13 is impt
Scribe [?\]: this move is a must white s13
]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[qc]CR[qc]
(;W[rg]CR[rg]
;B[of]CR[of]
;W[ph]CR[ph]C[nutcase [1k\]: R17 alone is new move :)
wrong [1d?\]: jujo shown us when B ommited R15
]
;B[og]CR[og]
;W[pi]CR[pi])
(;W[of]CR[of]
;B[rg]CR[rg]
;W[rf]CR[rf]C[wrong [1d?\]: Chang Hao's game I think
]
;B[oh]CR[oh]C[idunnoyou3 [9k\]: no eye! 
Ildefonse [10k\]: 1 eye
Scribe [?\]: white is too heavy
DrGoPlayer [4k\]: w is heavy
]))
(;B[of]CR[of]C[nutcase [1k\]: q13
Scribe [?\]: black must not hane here at p14 because black r12 is out of position
zee [8k\]: This Hane is bad for B
tarragone [15k\]: yes
Nexo [2k\]: yes
jas [15k?\]: yes
playm8 [7k?\]: yes
weezou [11k\]: yes
agui [7k\]: yes
swilks [6k\]: ys
nutcase [1k\]: oh i c
wrong [1d?\]: yes
krneki [10k\]: yes
nutcase [1k\]: P14 no good
balance [3k\]: hand hane after r15?
nutcase [1k\]: shd R15 or R17
]
;W[og]CR[og]C[Lamrin [11k\]: cut
]
;B[pg]CR[pg]
;W[oe]CR[oe]
;B[nf]CR[nf]
;W[pd]CR[pd]C[kole [4k\]: same
]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[ne]CR[ne]
;W[oc]CR[oc]C[Nexo [2k\]: the same thing
]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[qc]CR[qc]C[idunnoyou3 [9k\]: diff... white can P12 now
nutcase [1k\]: but R12
]
;B[pd]CR[pd]C[idunnoyou3 [9k\]: lol
wrong [1d?\]: Why not B O16??????????????
]
;W[nd]CR[nd]C[nutcase [1k\]: cos R12 at better position
]
;B[oe]CR[oe]C[kjp [6k\]: so B should not play hane
]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[wrong [1d?\]: instead of O15???????????
]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[md]CR[md]LB[ph:A]TR[qh]C[nutcase [1k\]: abit of diff
idunnoyou3 [9k\]: no
Lamrin [11k\]: no
spingle [9k\]: no
jas [15k?\]: no
rhubarb [8k\]: no
EnliBikal [11k\]: no
zviratko [12k\]: no
nutcase [1k\]: but b still no good
EroSennin [9k\]: w has p13
rhubarb [8k\]: r12 q12
EroSennin [9k\]: lol
balance [3k\]: bettter for bla¡ck
Harriman [3k\]: q12 r12
Lamrin [11k\]: p13
jas [15k?\]: r12
kjp [6k\]: close
Nexo [2k\]: is too low
zee [8k\]: different than before
Scribe [?\]: not the same, blakc r12 should be at q12
nutcase [1k\]: maybe even
]
;W[oh]CR[oh]C[nutcase [1k\]: R10?
Scribe [?\]: now too easy for white to run out with p12
])
(;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[of]CR[of]
;B[nf]CR[nf]
;W[ng]CR[ng])))
(;W[pf]CR[pf]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[of]CR[of]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[nf]CR[nf]
;B[md]CR[md]
;W[ql]CR[ql]C[nutcase [1k\]: R9 to be safe?
])
(;W[qh]CR[qh]
;B[rd]CR[rd]))))