(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[mingjiu]PB[mingjiu]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2005-01-30]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[glint [12k?\]: hi
olczyk [15k\]: Hello
revo [16k\]: hi
Bardock [4k\]: hi
taudrilly [18k\]: hi
mingyaod [11k\]: ya
Baga [11k\]: hallo!
Uvas [-\]: yup
MysticoN [24k\]: yeah
zviratko [12k\]: yes
Skali [18k\]: Hello
revo [16k\]: yes
Badduck [5d\]: hello
rakdver [14k\]: hi
ives [11k\]: hi, we hear you
Saiya [5k\]: yes
rzhao [5k\]: yes
DrGoPlayer [5k\]: yes
alarique [12k\]: yes
Bardock [4k\]: yes
Shiva [6k?\]: hi
Kikuchyo [?\]: yes, hello
Bodo212 [14k\]: hello
taudrilly [18k\]: loud and clear
grmaster [7k?\]: hio
nutcase [1k\]: hello, jiang laoshi :)
excession [9k\]: hi, quieter than guo juan though
okhna [15k\]: not loud but clear
glint [12k?\]: interesting game
kimba [7k\]: rather low
Jolanda [?\]: not very loud
yahoo [-\]: sounds perfect
hansb [2k?\]: yes
kimba [7k\]: better
Santa [6k\]: hello 
excession [9k\]: yes, we can always turn the volume up :)
zee [10k\]: yes
kole [4k\]: ok
Jolanda [?\]: ok
zee [10k\]: good
Shiva [6k?\]: ok
glint [12k?\]: good
okhna [15k\]: no no
MysticoN [24k\]: yup
rakdver [14k\]: thank you
Grimley [9k\]: thnx!
dagge [4k\]: thank you mingjiu
olczyk [15k\]: not enough
]
(;B[pd]CR[pd]C[okhna [15k\]: ok
Santa [6k\]: I think R17 was a mistake
]
(;W[pp]CR[pp]C[Grimley [9k\]: i was thinking about s5 as well..
]
;B[dd]CR[dd]
;W[dp]CR[dp]
;B[jd]CR[jd]
;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[dj]CR[dj]
(;W[nd]CR[nd]C[hansb [2k?\]: What about O17?
zee [10k\]: p 14 r17 q10 for pros
glint [12k?\]: hehe
IdnOuNaGe [8k?\]: Q14 
zee [10k\]: not o16
nutcase [1k\]: more in handicapped games i think
goglu [-\]: O17 is seen in pro games
IdnOuNaGe [8k?\]: Q14 
]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[pg]CR[pg]C[zee [10k\]: B must p16
Scribe [?\]: Black must bamboo joint at p16 due to white o16
Jolanda [?\]: wow what a sound
]
;B[of]CR[of]
(;W[qe]CR[qe]C[Santa [6k\]: oh
Uvas [-\]: p5!
excession [9k\]: p16!
]
(;B[qd]CR[qd])
(;B[od]CR[od]C[Uvas [-\]: 16
]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[nh]CR[nh]C[glint [12k?\]: B
Bardock [4k\]: b
handtalk [8k\]: b
akew [30k?\]: W
zee [10k\]: who is better?
tomrotc [6k\]: I like wite
nutcase [1k\]: even result actually
rzhao [5k\]: b
gogy [9k\]: b
balance [3k\]: both
kimba [7k\]: even
monchacha [10k\]: b
Drum24 [11k?\]: even
borsuk [10k\]: even
zee [10k\]: Good for B
]))
(;W[qc]CR[qc]C[kimba [7k\]: r15
krneki [10k\]: r15
nutcase [1k\]: b R15?
zee [10k\]: ok, W gets the corner
]
(;B[pc]CR[pc]C[Scribe [?\]: this is not joseki 
Scribe [?\]: just a mistake
Scribe [?\]: black q17
]
;W[qd]CR[qd]C[zee [10k\]: game
]
;B[qe]CR[qe]C[Scribe [?\]: must block r15
]
;W[re]CR[re]C[Santa [6k\]: i used to play this
]
;B[pe]CR[pe]C[Scribe [?\]: this black q17
playgo [4k\]: P14 looks strange
]
(;W[qg]CR[qg]C[nutcase [1k\]: b shd S14
hansb [2k?\]: S14
ericosman [3k\]: leaves more aji
goglu [-\]: no good
biomorph [15k\]: B S15?
glint [12k?\]: mistake
nutcase [1k\]: R13 is hamete
ericosman [3k\]: there are cuts
Drum24 [11k?\]: bR17 is sente noow?
rzhao [5k\]: bad aji
biomorph [15k\]: S14
spingle [9k\]: q18 better?
ndkrempel [5k\]: black must play s14 after
glint [12k?\]: s16 weakness
ndkrempel [5k\]: but similar
ericosman [3k\]: one more cut than before
zee [10k\]: how about W r13?
monchacha [10k\]: less ko
kyrilin [19k\]: s14
ericosman [3k\]: maybe P13 is simple punishment
Drum24 [11k?\]: R18?
krneki [10k\]: s16
goglu [-\]: S14
Grimley [9k\]: r18?
kimba [7k\]: p13
zee [10k\]: How can B punish
Hu [12k\]: O12
Scribe [?\]: white r13 is a mistake
brx [13k\]: s16
MysticoN [24k\]: so a wall with 2 stones is allways weak ? .. and 3 stones ar usually safe ?
]
(;B[og]CR[og]C[au2 [2k\]: b K16 too close to wall ?
rzhao [5k\]: w got the corner easily
hansb [2k?\]: R18
ndkrempel [5k\]: r18? to remove cut
swilks [6k\]: r18
ericosman [3k\]: now the hane looks better
revo [16k\]: hane p12
borsuk [10k\]: q18
zee [10k\]: where should W play?
kimba [7k\]: q18
Drum24 [11k?\]: q18
tomrotc [6k\]: q18
ericosman [3k\]: and give up 2 stones in corner
nutcase [1k\]: Q18 of cos ;)
xMe [5k\]: q18
ericosman [3k\]: in trade for center influence
shalimar1 [12k\]: p12
]
(;W[pb]CR[pb]C[nutcase [1k\]: shd S14 1st
Grimley [9k\]: black should not respond at p18
hansb [2k?\]: R14
goglu [-\]: S14 works
zee [10k\]: hane is a bad idea
]
(;B[ob]CR[ob]C[nutcase [1k\]: big wall but gote
nutcase [1k\]: P13 a mistake
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]C[nutcase [1k\]: i sure take w
Scribe [?\]: not joseki, many mistakes in this sequence
]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[nutcase [1k\]: b missed a chance
olczyk [15k\]: not good for white
Drum24 [11k?\]: black
MysticoN [24k\]: black
spingle [9k\]: g4b
hansb [2k?\]: good for white
borsuk [10k\]: Goof for black
nutcase [1k\]: w slightly better?
zee [10k\]: black
ives [11k\]: b
goglu [-\]: i like black
atman [4k\]: white gets a lot of profit
Saiya [5k\]: good for B
Tomek32 [20k\]: it better for black
revo [16k\]: even
Santa [6k\]: white is maybe a little better
MysticoN [24k\]: Good for  black
mpu [1d\]: white
Badduck [5d\]: w good
playgo [4k\]: large corner
kimba [7k\]: goosd 4 white
krneki [10k\]: i like black
Santa [6k\]: P12 is big
kyrilin [19k\]: black
zviratko [12k\]: both
brx [13k\]: b
Baga [11k\]: white..a little
glint [12k?\]: B better
kalim [14k\]: big wall
azrael271 [19k\]: good for black
rzhao [5k\]: bad aji at s14
hansb [2k?\]: R13 is mistake
glint [12k?\]: P18 mistake
Drum24 [11k?\]: o17 needed?
goglu [-\]: P18 
playgo [4k\]: Q17 was wrong
swilks [6k\]: r13 is mistake
nutcase [1k\]: lol
egemen [11k\]: r15 is not urgent?
spingle [9k\]: lol
nutcase [1k\]: lotsa mistakes :)
Bardock [4k\]: r15
glint [12k?\]: Q18 mistake
krneki [10k\]: white should leave q18 for later?
Grimley [9k\]: good for white
nutcase [1k\]: b more mistakes, shd be w better
ndkrempel [5k\]: good for white
hansb [2k?\]: still good 4 white
spingle [9k\]: good for w
]
;W[oh]CR[oh]C[Drum24 [11k?\]: kills the ajo
ericosman [3k\]: is hane first ok too ?
zee [10k\]: now W can hane
kimba [7k\]: white is better now
ericosman [3k\]: or must q18 be first ?
hansb [2k?\]: R14
zee [10k\]: because he fixed it with q18
]
;B[nh]CR[nh]
;W[oi]CR[oi]C[goglu [-\]: good for white
kimba [7k\]: white is better
spingle [9k\]: lol hans
zee [10k\]: good for W
ericosman [3k\]: double hane ????
nutcase [1k\]: oso can if u can fight :)
ericosman [3k\]: O11 for w ????\\
zee [10k\]: W got more than B
])
(;B[rf]CR[rf]C[nutcase [1k\]: S14 now?
Scribe [?\]: white q18 bad move
zee [10k\]: but q18 is still a bad move
nutcase [1k\]: i c, w R18 honte
]
;W[rg]CR[rg]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[sf]CR[sf]C[Scribe [?\]: black  can still cut at s14
IdnOuNaGe [8k?\]: the black wall is very important !!!
]
(;B[rc]CR[rc])
(;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[sd]CR[sd]
;B[ob]CR[ob]C[gogy [9k\]: nice
Scribe [?\]: this is the punishment by black for white q18
nutcase [1k\]: the hane stone killed, big loss
zee [10k\]: this should be for B
])))
(;W[qb]CR[qb]C[tomrotc [6k\]: how about r18?
tomrotc [6k\]: yes
]
(;B[pb]CR[pb]C[Scribe [?\]: white r18 is proper move
]
;W[oh]CR[oh]C[ericosman [3k\]: is w hane at P12 ok instead of R18 ?
zee [10k\]: W should R18
])
(;B[oi]CR[oi]
;W[ob]CR[ob]C[nutcase [1k\]: R18 much much better :)
])))
(;B[rf]CR[rf]C[Scribe [?\]: what can B punish ? by playing s14
ericosman [3k\]: w s16
]
(;W[rg]CR[rg]C[ericosman [3k\]: but w is smarter and won't.  she'll s16 instead.
]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[sf]CR[sf]
;B[rc]CR[rc]C[zee [10k\]: very hard for W after the s14 cut
Scribe [?\]: if white defends outside white loses the corner
])
(;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[og]CR[og]C[ericosman [3k\]: cause of the cut ?
rzhao [5k\]: cut
]
(;W[oh]CR[oh]C[Scribe [?\]: if white connects on the inside black will p13
Scribe [?\]: after the white hane of p12 white is sealed intothe conrner
]
;B[ph]CR[ph]C[zee [10k\]: W cannot hane here
]
;W[pi]CR[pi]C[ericosman [3k\]: misery
]
;B[qh]CR[qh]
;W[rg]CR[rg]
;B[rh]CR[rh]
;W[sf]CR[sf]
;B[qj]CR[qj]C[zee [10k\]: good for B
grmaster [7k?\]: terrible for W
])
(;W[ph]CR[ph])
(;W[pi]CR[pi]
;B[oh]CR[oh]
;W[pj]CR[pj]
;B[nj]TR[og][oh][nj]C[ericosman [3k\]: worth explaining why q10 is so important for w in this shape please.
kimba [7k\]: massive wall
zee [10k\]: very good for B
Scribe [?\]: better for black the wall is much taller
nutcase [1k\]: too good for b :)
]))))
(;W[rg]CR[rg]
;B[og]CR[og]
;W[ph]CR[ph]TR[nd]C[nutcase [1k\]: P12
krneki [10k\]: r15 too soon
]
(;B[me]CR[me]C[nutcase [1k\]: shd p12
]
;W[pb]CR[pb]C[Scribe [?\]: white got big corner and its hard to kill white o16
nutcase [1k\]: too small...
])
(;B[ni]CR[ni]C[zee [10k\]: this is handicap joseki
zee [10k\]: B gives up a lot of territory
Santa [6k\]: yes
janine [?\]: yes
kimba [7k\]: ok
nutcase [1k\]: yes
MysticoN [24k\]: if black plays O17 ?
olczyk [15k\]: yes
Santa [6k\]: white tricked poor black
]
;W[lc]CR[lc])))
(;B[qe]CR[qe]C[nrgdw [5k\]: R15
nutcase [1k\]: or R13?
zee [10k\]: should block at r15
zee [10k\]: o16 should be o17
Drum24 [11k?\]: sure
swilks [6k\]: yes
janine [?\]: yes
ericosman [3k\]: but if w plays low at O17 and b plays M17 then b still has P17 threat, right ?
apitoo [4k\]: y
okhna [15k\]: yes
]
(;W[ob]CR[ob]C[nutcase [1k\]: w a little thin?
]
;B[qg]CR[qg]C[gogy [9k\]: q17
nutcase [1k\]: can b play R13 instead of R15?
Grimley [9k\]: why p18 instead of q17?
nutcase [1k\]: b can O17...
]
;W[]C[biomorph [15k\]: yes, about 10 times
]
;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[pb]CR[pb]C[zee [10k\]: very good for B
]
;B[rc]CR[rc]
;W[rb]CR[rb]C[Scribe [?\]: white does not have good shape here
]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[qb]CR[qb]C[goglu [-\]: I have search 30 000 pro games, none with O16
biomorph [15k\]: audio problems: unexpected EOF
]
;B[kc]CR[kc]
(;W[mb]CR[mb])
(;W[]C[MysticoN [24k\]: s16
]
;B[mb]CR[mb]
;W[nb]CR[nb]
;B[mc]CR[mc]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[sb]CR[sb]C[Wibren [10k?\]: d16?
taudrilly [18k\]: biomorph, did you try rejoining this session?
gogy [9k\]: s16
Wibren [10k?\]: s16?
MysticoN [24k\]: white play S16 ?
Drum24 [11k?\]: kisnt white S16 instant life?
okhna [15k\]: reopen bio
olczyk [15k\]: s16?
]))
(;W[qg]CR[qg]
;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[qd]CR[qd])
(;W[pc]CR[pc]C[Thoravatar [7k\]: maybe 016 was a mouseslip :P
]
;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[]TR[nd]C[zee [10k\]: hard for W
Scribe [?\]:  black has several moves to trouble white here: p17 , o18, L17
]
(;B[oc]CR[oc])
(;B[kc]CR[kc])
(;B[nb]CR[nb])
(;B[lc]CR[lc])))))
(;W[nc]CR[nc]C[zee [10k\]: B's moyo is gone
nutcase [1k\]: instead of Q14
]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[pg]CR[pg]
;B[of]CR[of]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[pc]CR[pc]C[Grimley [9k\]: ok thnx
]
;B[qg]CR[qg]C[zee [10k\]: good for W
Scribe [?\]: after white entered corner with r17 black must block at r15
nutcase [1k\]: but b got strong move at R17...
handtalk [8k\]: better shape?
]
;W[fc]CR[fc]C[nutcase [1k\]: w cant possibly get this...
shadok [-\]: the sound is good!
])
(;W[of]CR[of])
(;W[qc]CR[qc])
(;W[pj]CR[pj]))
(;W[dp]CR[dp]C[mspan [10k\]: are there some basic principles we can use?
]
;B[pp]CR[pp]
;W[dd]CR[dd]
;B[pj]CR[pj]
;W[nq]CR[nq]
;B[jd]CR[jd]
;W[qn]CR[qn]
(;B[no]CR[no]C[okhna [15k\]: balance = basic principle :P
])
(;B[on]CR[on]
;W[qq]CR[qq]
;B[qp]CR[qp]
;W[pq]CR[pq]C[Grimley [9k\]: get territory:)
]
;B[op]CR[op]C[Scribe [?\]: different, white played low this time
]
(;W[rp]CR[rp]C[nutcase [1k\]: lol
hansb [2k?\]: P3
nutcase [1k\]: P3
goglu [-\]: push and cut
nutcase [1k\]: Q2 make more sense
ndkrempel [5k\]: maybe s3 instead of s4?
]
(;B[ro]CR[ro]C[zee [10k\]: B misses
]
;W[rq]CR[rq]
;B[qo]CR[qo]C[nutcase [1k\]: bad move
])
(;B[oq]CR[oq]C[kimba [7k\]: first push through and cut
nutcase [1k\]: quite similar to the prev example
hansb [2k?\]: S5?
Grimley [9k\]: s5?
]
;W[or]CR[or]
;B[pr]CR[pr]C[nutcase [1k\]: push n cut at O2 or Q2
kimba [7k\]: q2
]
(;W[nr]CR[nr]C[nutcase [1k\]: w punished 
]
;B[rq]CR[rq]C[Scribe [?\]: black must push cut first
Ives08 [8k\]: much better now
]
;W[qr]CR[qr]C[zee [10k\]: after W s4, B should push p3
]
;B[rr]CR[rr]
;W[ps]CR[ps]
;B[ro]CR[ro])
(;W[qr]CR[qr]
;B[nr]CR[nr]
;W[ps]CR[ps]C[nutcase [1k\]: ladder
]
;B[ro]CR[ro]
;W[rq]CR[rq]
;B[qo]CR[qo]C[rzhao [5k\]: is there difference between o2 and q2?
]
(;W[mq]CR[mq])
(;W[mr]CR[mr]))))
(;W[rq]CR[rq]C[hansb [2k?\]: P3
nutcase [1k\]: S3 or P3
zee [10k\]: W should s2
])))
(;W[qf]CR[qf]
(;B[qh]CR[qh]
;W[nd]CR[nd]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[pg]CR[pg]
;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[qc]CR[qc]C[Scribe [?\]: joseki
zee [10k\]: joseki
]
;B[jd]CR[jd]C[Scribe [?\]: big difference from previous
]
;W[]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[od]CR[od]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[mb]CR[mb]C[zee [10k\]: K 16 is key
]
;W[of]CR[of]
;B[rf]CR[rf]
;W[lb]CR[lb]LB[of:A]C[rzhao [5k\]: clever
]
;B[md]CR[md]
;W[lc]CR[lc])
(;B[jd]CR[jd]
(;W[nd]CR[nd]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[pg]CR[pg]
;B[of]CR[of]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[qg]CR[qg]TR[of]C[Scribe [?\]: in previous black stone at p14
]
;W[]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[od]CR[od]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[mb]CR[mb]C[goglu [-\]: yes
tomrotc [6k\]: yes
olczyk [15k\]: yes
janine [?\]: yes
kimba [7k\]: yes
Grimley [9k\]: how does it continue?
zee [10k\]: p14 allows the hane
glint [12k?\]: ok
nutcase [1k\]: w cant double atari
nutcase [1k\]:  :)
balance [3k\]: hola goku
handtalk [8k\]: yes
swilks [6k\]: yes
])
(;W[pp]CR[pp]
;B[dd]CR[dd]
;W[dp]CR[dp]
;B[dj]CR[dj]C[Bodo212 [14k\]: thx
]
(;W[nd]CR[nd]C[zee [10k\]: in even game o16 is bad
Bodo212 [14k\]: ok
handtalk [8k\]: ok 
kimba [7k\]: ok
janine [?\]: ok
handtalk [8k\]: thanks!
janine [?\]: haha
brx [13k\]: in the first position - why better to cut at S14 and not at S16?
nutcase [1k\]: nice lesson, thx
olczyk [15k\]: got it
Drum24 [11k?\]: got it
])
(;W[nc]CR[nc]C[Bardock [4k\]: thx
rzhao [5k\]: thx
glint [12k?\]: thx ming jiu
aditsu [12k\]: doesn't b normally respond to r14 on the top?
tomrotc [6k\]: thanks.
nutcase [1k\]: b R17 
okhna [15k\]: thank you
Grimley [9k\]: scribe: where can i find the saved lessons?
kimba [7k\]: okay thx and bye
haka [18k\]: thanks for the lesson
Hu [12k\]: Thank you!
Zanthia [?\]: thanks
tibra [10k?\]: thanks
Pyv [2k\]: thank you
olczyk [15k\]: thanks
janine [?\]: thanks
swilks [6k\]: thanks
olczyk [15k\]: homework?
handtalk [8k\]: thx Ing Goe foundation
au2 [2k\]: THANKS TO ING FOUNDATION
akew [30k?\]: thanks
Scribe [?\]: see Scribe info
nutcase [1k\]: thx, jiang laoshi :)
Drum24 [11k?\]: double wing is nice. cant wait for it#
])))))
(;B[qb]CR[qb]C[nutcase [1k\]: last wk homework?
]
;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[qc]CR[qc]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
(;B[qf]CR[qf])
(;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[rg]CR[rg]
;B[qh]CR[qh]
;W[rh]CR[rh]
;B[oh]CR[oh]
;W[qj]CR[qj]C[Kikuchyo [?\]: t16
IdnOuNaGe [8k?\]: if black play black live
]
(;B[se]CR[se]C[nutcase [1k\]: T16 much better
rzhao [5k\]: t 16
]
;W[rf]CR[rf]C[Grimley [9k\]: guo juan told us
taudrilly [18k\]: yes, black is dead
nutcase [1k\]: T15 bad
nutcase [1k\]: b dead
])
(;B[sd]CR[sd]C[zee [10k\]: p15 is a bad move
Grimley [9k\]: +
tomrotc [6k\]: then b has r14
MysticoN [24k\]: Black dead if white play T18
handtalk [8k\]: s14
zee [10k\]: can play gote now and sente later but not the other way
MysticoN [24k\]: black dead at T18
nutcase [1k\]: T18 later after w S14
kimba [7k\]: nice
]
;W[qa]CR[qa]
;B[rf]CR[rf])))
(;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[qd]CR[qd]
;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[aa]CR[aa]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[ab]CR[ab]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[ac]CR[ac]
;W[mb]CR[mb]
;B[ad]CR[ad]
;W[lc]CR[lc]C[lazy [?\]: u can set up positions with f2 instead
Thoravatar [7k\]: s19
lazy [?\]: no
kyrilin [19k\]: no
nutcase [1k\]: P18
nutcase [1k\]: too easy :)
Ildefonse [10k\]: P18
Grimley [9k\]: how many ways
IdnOuNaGe [8k?\]: :)
Thoravatar [7k\]: how many ways
olczyk [15k\]: black to live
Scribe [?\]: Homework
zee [10k\]: How many ways can W kill B
nutcase [1k\]: 3?
nutcase [1k\]: ok
handtalk [8k\]: thx for homework
janine [?\]: ok
balance [3k\]: yes
olczyk [15k\]: yes.
olczyk [15k\]: tahnk you
tomrotc [6k\]: thanks
apitoo [4k\]: y
]))