(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[mingjiu]PB[mingjiu]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2005-05-22]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[wholeboard [8k\]: hi
wholeboard [8k\]: yes
ihgo [5k\]: yes
Soneca [11k\]: hi
jantiff [6k?\]: ni hao master jiang ^^
Kenata [12k\]: hello
ligo [9k?\]: hi
offtosea [15k\]: hi minjui
os69os [7k\]: hi
agui [8k\]: Hello
playgo [5k\]: hi
Ruutana [14k\]: Hi!
rakdver [13k\]: hi
EkinOne [13k\]: can hear now
KKKMKTK [?\]: hi
agui [8k\]: Sound very low
EkinOne [13k\]: yes
Scribe [-\]: ni hao
Scribe [-\]: we can hear you now
offtosea [15k\]: both jujo and minjui are active
okhna [15k\]: sound is coming far away
Scribe [-\]: we can hear both of you
EkinOne [13k\]: can hear mingjiu voice as well
ferryeva [10k\]: what happen today?
Grimley [8k\]: jujo was delayed for 3 minutes
gladden [8k\]: ok
Scribe [-\]: it is good
okhna [15k\]: still hard to hear
murky: ok
fab [2d\]: sound is too low
EkinOne [13k\]: if its me i will build moyo in this game... a VERY BIG ONE :D
binky [12k\]: very quiet here
sicbanana [15k\]: okey
jantiff [6k?\]: thanks for teaching,
]
(;B[pd]CR[pd]C[agui [8k\]: very low
nigulh [17k\]: louder please
Windrider [16k?\]: he cant here us
Scribe [-\]: New Game
sicbanana [15k\]: yep thx
]
(;W[dp]CR[dp]C[offtosea [15k\]: can barely hear
zee [10k\]: Another game
]
(;B[qp]CR[qp]C[Ahndraniel [15k\]: sounds too low
]
;W[dd]CR[dd]C[Grimley [8k\]: can you turn op the volume mingjiu?
Scribe [-\]: always hard to hear mingjiu....this is as good as it gets
wrong [3d?\]: can You level up the sound recording please
]
(;B[op]CR[op]C[Wook [-\]: please move the sound discussion to the main chat room
]
;W[qj]CR[qj]
;B[qh]CR[qh]C[Tarkam [?\]: it 's a lesson ?
Medice [14k\]: volume up please..
]
;W[qm]CR[qm]C[DangoMouse [-\]: yes
azil [6k?\]: turn up your own sound volume, for windows, use speaker in your system tray double click and turn both wave & volume control up.
Bodo212 [15k\]: yes
ArCosH [4k\]: one line
Scribe [-\]: which is better for black to play q8 or q9 ?
]
(;B[pl]CR[pl]C[agui [8k\]: difficault question
DangoMouse [-\]: r4 is further than r12
sicbanana [15k\]: closer to corner enclosure?
]
;W[ql]CR[ql]C[DangoMouse [-\]: yes, Tarkam
jantiff [6k?\]: P4 seems original
]
;B[pj]CR[pj]C[GonKu [16k\]: R10
gokun [4k\]: r12 good ?
]
(;W[pk]CR[pk]C[azil [6k?\]: turn your own sound up.
]
;B[ok]CR[ok]C[Windrider [16k?\]: we can hear nothing
]
;W[qk]CR[qk]
;B[pi]CR[pi]C[wrong [3d?\]: depends of the opponent
Grimley [8k\]: all moves are good for us so a bit stupid to ask if a move is good with this game
]
;W[ol]CR[ol]C[au2 [3k\]: no scribe, he is usually a bit louder
jantiff [6k?\]: b gets good thickness
braincrash [?\]: where is scribe?
]
;B[nk]CR[nk]C[jantiff [6k?\]: Yi Chang Ho joseki
Medice [14k\]: i have turned everything as up as i can :P
EkinOne [13k\]: unless b has stone in K17... then tat wall is efficient
wrong [3d?\]: this looks like W want to give some handi to B
]
(;W[om]CR[om]C[jantiff [6k?\]: P7 is a thick move
]
(;B[jc]CR[jc]C[KKKMKTK [?\]: not me :)
Soneca [11k\]: hey.. looks like Lee changhoo game
Medice [14k\]: it's still like whisper
sicbanana [15k\]: yep!
Heretix [20k\]: yep
wholeboard [8k\]: yes
Bodo212 [15k\]: clear
agui [8k\]: yes very clear
Ahndraniel [15k\]: ok
fujisai [21k\]: ^^
offtosea [15k\]: stagger lines
Scribe [-\]: therefore black must play k17 NOT k16
sicbanana [15k\]: but why did white then take the corner?
goglu [-\]: could white play K15 before sansan
]
;W[qc]CR[qc]C[murky: I saw
goglu [-\]: Lee Changho game
murky: before
Windrider [16k?\]: do you hear well?
dynamite [11k\]: amazing how far pros think ahead
jantiff [6k?\]: so, what's the direction for black if wP7 is at R17 ?
]
;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[qd]CR[qd]C[playgo [5k\]: O17 for white is wrong ?
]
;B[qe]CR[qe]C[Soneca [11k\]: lol i know this sequence...
]
;W[re]CR[re]TR[jc]C[Windrider [16k?\]: i dont
goglu [-\]: that explains K17 instead of K16
]
;B[rf]CR[rf]C[jantiff [6k?\]: b could be Yi Chang Ho
DangoMouse [-\]: after b plays p17 without k17, is j18 sente for w?
Heretix [20k\]: similarly, white should play K3?
]
(;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[pe]CR[pe]C[agui [8k\]: I have put all my boosters but is not enough
]
;W[rg]CR[rg]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[qg]CR[qg]C[Wook [-\]: turn up windows controls for wave sound
Soneca [11k\]: no, black is Lee Changho
]
;B[pg]CR[pg]
;W[qb]CR[qb]C[Windrider [16k?\]: louder??
]
;B[rh]CR[rh]C[agui [8k\]: sound very, very low
]
;W[sf]CR[sf]C[KKKMKTK [?\]: sound is good
zee [10k\]: B is Lee Changho
Wook [-\]: great and loud here
Windrider [16k?\]: mingjiu
azil [6k?\]: double click the speaker in your system tray
Windrider [16k?\]: louder please
au2 [3k\]: sound low here
okhna [15k\]: still same
rakdver [13k\]: sound is ok
Windrider [16k?\]: we cant here you well
DrGoPlayer [5k?\]: yes
smudge [11k?\]: Sound is fine.
EkinOne [13k\]: still soft
fab [2d\]: no change, still too low
azil [6k?\]: then increase wave & volume control
dynamite [11k\]: here its ok
kyuplayer1 [11k\]: too low sound volume
wholeboard [8k\]: fine here
Kenata [12k\]: I can hear him fine.
braincrash [?\]: still too low
Wook [-\]: very good here...speakers at 25% 
offtosea [15k\]: a little low, but we can hear
wingnut [-\]: check one. two ;-)
Medice [14k\]: way too low volume
Grimley [8k\]: very soft
gladden [8k\]: ok
azil [6k?\]: and for mister mingjiu.. should double click speaker too.. and turn microphone up.
Chachi [10k\]: if i get a windows chime its gonna be thunderous
rhubarb [6k\]: too low
KKKMKTK [?\]: yes
Windrider [16k?\]: louder!
Windrider [16k?\]: :(
braincrash [?\]: people who can hear him fine pls stop with the volume control comments
Windrider [16k?\]: i here nothing
agui [8k\]: yes too low
gokun [4k\]: i hear well, if you don't hear mingjuw, increase your volume control 
offtosea [15k\]: sound and white!
wrong [3d?\]: my 500W speakers work fine at 3% ;)
KKKMKTK [?\]: who is white?  ^^
Grimley [8k\]: no sound volume is too low
Wook [-\]: mingjiu the black wall to the left looks very powerful
Bodo212 [15k\]: for sound
agui [8k\]: for voice
tromp [2k\]: easy to hear at max volume
azil [6k?\]: everybody stop the sound comments..
sicbanana [15k\]: i think the sound is ok!
Medice [14k\]: then you think wrong
braincrash [?\]: im at max volume its too low
KKKMKTK [?\]: yes
tromp [2k\]: if i play mp3 at this level i'll be deaf in a minute
Wook [-\]: back to the game discussion please!
Scribe [-\]: so dont
Windrider [16k?\]: we need more volume hear
]
(;B[sh]CR[sh])
(;B[si]CR[si]))
(;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[oc]CR[oc]C[Scribe [-\]: if black k17 white can not cut at p17
]
;B[od]CR[od]C[wrong [3d?\]: B says "thank you"
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]TR[jc][oc]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[nb]CR[nb]C[zee [10k\]: this is good for B
]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[mb]CR[mb]C[EkinOne [13k\]: good for b
]
;W[lc]CR[lc]
;B[lb]CR[lb]C[Scribe [-\]: k17 makes this playable for black
]
;W[kc]CR[kc]
;B[kb]CR[kb]C[zee [10k\]: In this case W p17 is not good
]))
(;B[jd]CR[jd]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[qd]CR[qd]C[sicbanana [15k\]: that wouldnt work?
]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[rf]CR[rf]
;W[pb]CR[pb]C[zee [10k\]: What pf B k16?
]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[mb]CR[mb]TR[oc][jd]C[zee [10k\]: Now W can p17
]
;W[lc]CR[lc]C[Scribe [-\]: if black at k16 in place of k17, white CAN cut at p17
EkinOne [13k\]: worst for B
]
;B[lb]CR[lb]
;W[kc]CR[kc]
;B[kb]CR[kb]
;W[jc]CR[jc]C[zee [10k\]: B k16 cannot help in this case
Heretix [20k\]: I see
]
;B[jb]CR[jb]
;W[ic]CR[ic]C[nhycoh [1k?\]: how many liberties for the white corner ?
]))
(;W[qc]CR[qc]C[Windrider [16k?\]: O7 
wrong [3d?\]: Lee: I've go a moyo! What youu've got?
wrong [3d?\]: W gets sente
Wook [-\]: hmm....very low again
murky: not too good
EkinOne [13k\]: helping Black
braincrash [?\]: stone click is about 10 times louder than voice
playgo [5k\]: takes points
agui [8k\]: too early
jantiff [6k?\]: leaves aji at P7
dynamite [11k\]: gives b strengh
Moooow [11k\]: q17 and moyo on the upper side
KKKMKTK [?\]: white loves low moves ^^
goglu [-\]: too early to invade there
rhubarb [6k\]: early?
droste [18k\]: helping blacks mojo
nhycoh [1k?\]: k16 looks better forW
DangoMouse [-\]: makes b inefficient, good =)
rince [19k?\]: o17
sicbanana [15k\]: i think that too
olczyk [16k\]: joseki, but wrong joseki
lilith [11k\]: white dont care about a wall cause black is too closed
wingnut [-\]: probe?
hansb [4k?\]: white group still weak after black P7
agui [8k\]: first fixing the shape of the white group
Moooow [11k\]: b will be very thick
Moooow [11k\]: q17 !!
braincrash [?\]: must r16
wingnut [-\]: q17
offtosea [15k\]: q17
twmj [18k\]: r16
Wook [-\]: lol
Moooow [11k\]: strange so early no ?
droste [18k\]: r16
playgo [5k\]: does black have to play double hane ?
Scribe [-\]: Therefore Black must block at r16 UNLESS the white p7 black k17 exchange has happened...if so then block at q17
rhubarb [6k\]: no
rakdver [13k\]: why not just o17 after p17, if I want that resut?
offtosea [15k\]: s9 kills
zee [10k\]: W should p7 here
]
(;B[qd]CR[qd]C[DangoMouse [-\]: w's shape is weak
EkinOne [13k\]: for the center moyo
okhna [15k\]: hi guojuan, you are silent
jantiff [6k?\]: well R16
zee [10k\]: this r17 not good
]
;W[pc]CR[pc]C[offtosea [15k\]: ok
zee [10k\]: It is too early to invade the san san
]
;B[oc]CR[oc]C[Wook [-\]: Joseki ends in sente for b....nice
zee [10k\]: Also B should not try to kill the corner...too small
]
;W[ob]CR[ob]C[jantiff [6k?\]: what if w O19 at N17 ?
]
(;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[mb]CR[mb]
(;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[na]CR[na]C[wrong [3d?\]: wow, ni hao guojuan liaoshi
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]C[Wook [-\]: okhna only 1 teacher can talk in a KGS lesson
zee [10k\]: B cannot double hane
]
;W[nd]CR[nd]LB[rf:A]C[sicbanana [15k\]: not good for balck
okhna [15k\]: :P
zee [10k\]: game
EkinOne [13k\]: b very small
murky: This is the seem as one variation you showed
okhna [15k\]: dont talk guojuan
goglu [-\]: good for white I think
murky: similar
Heretix [20k\]: hmm, looks bad for black
murky: good for W
wrong [3d?\]: works nice with D16 stone
sicbanana [15k\]: white!
agui [8k\]: good for white
Heretix [20k\]: good for white
wingnut [-\]: W
EkinOne [13k\]: good for W
offtosea [15k\]: white
DangoMouse [-\]: both are ok
rhubarb [6k\]: even
DangoMouse [-\]: now p7?
Lilltiger [10k\]: black got sente..
Moooow [11k\]: i don't like o18 by b
zee [10k\]: If B tenuki, W has s14 for later
]
(;B[ne]CR[ne]
;W[me]CR[me]C[zee [10k\]: this is good for W
wrong [3d?\]: terrible aji
]
(;B[mf]CR[mf]C[Scribe [-\]: to much aji in the corner
zee [10k\]: hard for B to develop moyo
]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[oe]CR[oe]C[Scribe [-\]: black can not double hane
]
;B[nf]CR[nf]C[sicbanana [15k\]: big moyo for white in the top
]
;W[rd]CR[rd])
(;B[nf]CR[nf]))
(;LB[rf:A]
;C[jantiff [6k?\]: wS17
Scribe [-\]: White A (s14) remains to attack black's position, connect out to r12 or aji of s17
]
;B[]
;W[rf]CR[rf]
(;B[rg]CR[rg]
;W[rc]CR[rc])
(;B[re]CR[re]C[okhna [15k\]: bad shape
]
;W[rh]CR[rh]C[EkinOne [13k\]: S12
sicbanana [15k\]: hten its whits corner
]
;B[ri]CR[ri]
;W[qi]CR[qi]C[dynamite [11k\]: should b spend a honte move?
zee [10k\]: bad for B
]
;B[rg]CR[rg]
;W[qg]CR[qg]C[sicbanana [15k\]: a waht?
]))
(;B[om]CR[om]
;W[pm]CR[pm]
;B[nm]CR[nm]TR[om]C[zee [10k\]: this result is good for B
]
(;W[ro]CR[ro]C[Scribe [-\]: black s6 takes the corner removes aji, therefore white preempts with s5
]
;B[rp]CR[rp]C[zee [10k\]: Now W has to live
]
;W[ri]CR[ri]
;B[fq]CR[fq])
(;W[ri]CR[ri]C[zee [10k\]: W should s5 instead of s11
]
(;B[rh]CR[rh]C[goglu [-\]: S12
]
;W[gq]CR[gq]C[Scribe [-\]: this game two 4d amateur players
zee [10k\]: two 4d ama
jantiff [6k?\]: if w is alive, then S12 seems slow !
Ubiquity [?\]: kill white
tromp [2k\]: s6 looks severe
nhycoh [1k?\]: is white alive ?
EkinOne [13k\]: S6?
DangoMouse [-\]: s12 let w live in sente
offtosea [15k\]: b - s6?
]
;B[rn]CR[rn]C[jantiff [6k?\]: was S9 lethal ?
]
;W[rm]CR[rm]
(;B[rk]CR[rk])
(;B[qn]CR[qn]
;W[rk]CR[rk]))
(;B[rn]CR[rn]C[Scribe [-\]: black gives up corner, takes whites side group
]
(;W[rf]CR[rf]C[Scribe [-\]: s12  big black mistake
]
;B[rh]CR[rh]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[rb]CR[rb]C[zee [10k\]: B s12 was a mistake
])
(;W[rh]CR[rh]
;B[rg]CR[rg]
;W[rm]CR[rm]C[sicbanana [15k\]: t9?
tromp [2k\]: w has q5,s5
bonobo03 [9k\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
DangoMouse [-\]: yes
DangoMouse [-\]: f3 now
offtosea [15k\]: yes
]
(;B[sm]CR[sm]
;W[sl]CR[sl]
;B[rk]CR[rk]
;W[sh]CR[sh]
;B[sj]CR[sj]
;W[sn]CR[sn]C[Scribe [-\]: seki
])
(;B[rk]CR[rk]C[zee [10k\]: If B t7 then seki
DangoMouse [-\]: t12?
jantiff [6k?\]: T7
agui [8k\]: t9
sicbanana [15k\]: w t10?
bonobo03 [9k\]: R11
]
(;W[sh]CR[sh]
;B[sl]CR[sl]C[goglu [-\]: R11 
]
;W[sm]CR[sm]C[bonobo03 [9k\]: ko
]
;B[sj]CR[sj]C[Heretix [20k\]: white dead?
sicbanana [15k\]: dead
playgo [5k\]: nakade
suducodu [?\]: White is dead?
agui [8k\]: T9
Scribe [-\]: white is dead
])
(;W[sk]CR[sk]
;B[sl]CR[sl]
;W[sj]CR[sj]
;B[sh]CR[sh]
;W[rl]CR[rl]
;B[sm]CR[sm]
;W[sn]CR[sn]
;B[sm]CR[sm]))
(;B[po]CR[po])
(;B[qo]CR[qo]))))))
(;B[nd]CR[nd]C[zee [10k\]: So here B can block at r16
jantiff [6k?\]: then sacrifice for center influence
]
;W[na]CR[na]C[zee [10k\]: But remember that B cannot take the corner
]
;B[mc]CR[mc]C[tuesday: m17?
]
;W[nb]CR[nb]C[sicbanana [15k\]: still bad
sicbanana [15k\]: the walls i mean
Lilltiger [10k\]: is the still better then to not dubble hane?
]
;B[lc]CR[lc]C[sicbanana [15k\]: i think
Heretix [20k\]: good for black
murky: better
Scribe [-\]: better but still overconcentrated
agui [8k\]: better for black
bonobo03 [9k\]: much better
EkinOne [13k\]: w not moyo
sicbanana [15k\]: the thickness isnt efficient enough
zee [10k\]: How about this result?
zee [10k\]: Better for B
Moooow [11k\]: b is fine
jantiff [6k?\]: working with O9
zee [10k\]: OK for B
Scribe [-\]: this is ok for Black
sicbanana [15k\]: not too near?
]))
(;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[nb]CR[nb]
;B[mc]CR[mc]C[Scribe [-\]: black must not kill the corner, the corner is too small
]
;W[rd]CR[rd]C[Scribe [-\]: still ok for black
]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[rc]CR[rc]C[sicbanana [15k\]: yep
]
(;B[qf]CR[qf])
(;B[om]CR[om]
;W[pm]CR[pm]
;B[nm]CR[nm]C[zee [10k\]: this is also OK for B
playgo [5k\]: ok, thanks
])))
(;B[pc]CR[pc]C[sicbanana [15k\]: q17 is better?
droste [18k\]: r16
gokun [4k\]: b r 16 is overconcentrated maybe
]
;W[qd]CR[qd]C[Ahndraniel [15k\]: q16
]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[rf]CR[rf]TR[jc]C[jantiff [6k?\]: b will double hane and take sente
wrong [3d?\]: big chinese wall, built in 20 moves (years)
EkinOne [13k\]: yes
azil [6k?\]: yes
jantiff [6k?\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
suducodu [?\]: Yes
offtosea [15k\]: yes
sicbanana [15k\]: what if blck r14?
DangoMouse [-\]: q18
dynamite [11k\]: no :p
wingnut [-\]: Q15 
KKKMKTK [?\]: but great gote for me ^^  
]
(;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[rg]CR[rg]C[wrong [3d?\]: Lee probably thinking about getting married ;)
]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[qg]CR[qg]C[droste [18k\]: only one side of a black mojo
EkinOne [13k\]: this will be good for B
]
;B[pg]CR[pg]
(;W[rh]CR[rh]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[sf]CR[sf]C[tromp [2k\]: b gets his cake and eats it too
]
;B[rc]CR[rc]C[wingnut [-\]: and corner
KKKMKTK [?\]: pretty different 
jantiff [6k?\]: but gote
zee [10k\]: this way B has corner and outside
dynamite [11k\]: but w secured his groups in sente
])
(;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[rh]CR[rh]
;W[sf]CR[sf]
;B[om]CR[om]C[droste [18k\]: r16 makes threee sides
sicbanana [15k\]: the thickness is great good for black
jantiff [6k?\]: aouch ^^
]
;W[pm]CR[pm]
;B[nm]CR[nm]C[Moooow [11k\]: k17 ?
wrong [3d?\]: W strives to live^^
goglu [-\]: this is the great wall of china
jantiff [6k?\]: w will struggle
]))
(;W[pb]CR[pb]C[Scribe [-\]: better yet, Black gets both corner and the wall of influence....BUT white will NOT allow this (missing the k17 stone)
]
;B[ob]CR[ob]C[zee [10k\]: If W s13, the result would be good for B
goglu [-\]: P17 
agui [8k\]: q15
sicbanana [15k\]: white p18
ic3man [2k\]: p17
sicbanana [15k\]: 17
tromp [2k\]: p17
]
;W[oc]CR[oc]C[zee [10k\]: But q18 leads to tesuji cut at p17
sicbanana [15k\]: q15
Heretix [20k\]: yep
wingnut [-\]: is Jujo coming back to teach today?
pluszowy [13k\]: when black has k17 is it better to block invasion at q16?
offtosea [15k\]: ok
murky: clear
cemo [16k\]: what if r14 instead of s14?
wingnut [-\]: ok :)
kufr [12k?\]: what happened in the real game?
EkinOne [13k\]: lol
kufr [12k?\]: first p7 and then k17?
Heretix [20k\]: ok
]
(;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[pe]CR[pe])
(;B[pe]CR[pe]C[rakdver [13k\]: always :-)
Wook [-\]: hard to disagree with a 7p player :)
]
;W[nb]CR[nb]C[wrong [3d?\]: points/moves = too small :))))
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[rb]CR[rb]C[EkinOne [13k\]: everything gone 
DangoMouse [-\]: what happens if b attacks white now?
]
;W[kc]CR[kc]C[goglu [-\]: how about P16 instead of connecting
Lilltiger [10k\]: ponuki in blacks moyo =)
wingnut [-\]: Goof for W
dynamite [11k\]: good for w
Lilltiger [10k\]: baad for black
tromp [2k\]: miserable wall
playgo [5k\]: good for white
sicbanana [15k\]: inferior for black
agui [8k\]: good for white
twmj [18k\]: good for w
jantiff [6k?\]: locally, good for w
zee [10k\]: Now it is good for W
wingnut [-\]: overconsentrated
wrong [3d?\]: inefficient
KKKMKTK [?\]: ponuki good for white makes black less efficient
playgo [5k\]: korigatachi 
Scribe [-\]: overconcentrated
zee [10k\]: B inefficient
EkinOne [13k\]: yes
Lilltiger [10k\]: yes
sicbanana [15k\]: yep
KKKMKTK [?\]: yes ! ^^
Heretix [20k\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
wingnut [-\]: ok
zee [10k\]: However W has q18
wrong [3d?\]: P18 says: I am in a good shape ^_^
])
(;B[od]CR[od]C[tromp [2k\]: r18
sicbanana [15k\]: o17
DangoMouse [-\]: r18
wingnut [-\]: wO17 
Moooow [11k\]: o17
zee [10k\]: what if B p16?
Scribe [-\]: what is different between the two sequences...what allows the blakck double hane here ?
wrong [3d?\]: R18
zee [10k\]: B cannot p16
Scribe [-\]: this atari is bad for Black
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]C[zee [10k\]: not good herte
cemo [16k\]: ladder
sicbanana [15k\]: then black s16?
zee [10k\]: this is good for W
sicbanana [15k\]: s16
]
(;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[pe]CR[pe]C[zee [10k\]: W r18 too hard
]
;W[rg]CR[rg]C[DangoMouse [-\]: nothing, w made a mistake
sicbanana [15k\]: yes
]
;B[pf]CR[pf]C[KKKMKTK [?\]: black seems bad ..
]
;W[qg]CR[qg]
;B[pg]CR[pg]
;W[rh]CR[rh]C[DangoMouse [-\]: =(
Heretix [20k\]: hehe
KKKMKTK [?\]: oh good ^^
Moooow [11k\]: w is satisfied
playgo [5k\]: still nice wall
sicbanana [15k\]: s16
wrong [3d?\]: w connected
sicbanana [15k\]: after r18
])
(;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[mb]CR[mb]
;W[lc]CR[lc]
;B[lb]CR[lb]C[sicbanana [15k\]: thats bad for black
]
;W[kc]CR[kc]
;B[kb]CR[kb]C[azil [6k?\]: no good
]
;W[jc]CR[jc]
;B[jb]CR[jb]
;W[ic]CR[ic]C[wrong [3d?\]: crawling on the 2nd line is so miserable
]
;B[rd]CR[rd]C[suducodu [?\]: How?
dynamite [11k\]: line of defeat
sicbanana [15k\]: too much influence for withe
Scribe [-\]: blacks early stones no longer useful
]
;W[rc]CR[rc]C[DangoMouse [-\]: is j18 sente?
]
;B[se]CR[se]C[zee [10k\]: Even B can kill corner...too many 2nd line moves for B
])))
(;W[]
(;B[jc]CR[jc]
;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[oc]CR[oc])
(;B[])
(;B[pb]CR[pb])))))
(;W[pi]CR[pi]C[Scribe [-\]: New Game
Scribe [-\]: Who is playing ?
zee [10k\]: This time W plays q11
agui [8k\]: bad
okhna [15k\]: nice move
goglu [-\]: R11 next for black
jantiff [6k?\]: w is sacrificing...
DangoMouse [-\]: r9
erc [4d\]: brutal move
EkinOne [13k\]: bad
DangoMouse [-\]: b can cut w
agui [8k\]: black cuts
Scribe [-\]: two amateurs players stronger than 4d
jantiff [6k?\]: it seems crude
tromp [2k\]: q9 and cut?
DangoMouse [-\]: at r9
EkinOne [13k\]: b can get big moyo
DangoMouse [-\]: cut at r9 not r11
agui [8k\]: bad
EkinOne [13k\]: very bad
Heretix [20k\]: bad move
murky: its a disturbing move
goglu [-\]: I am sure it is bad otherwise the pros would play it :)
Scribe [-\]: white is too thin
suducodu [?\]: BAD
]
(;B[qi]CR[qi]C[tuesday: r9
Scribe [-\]: therefore black must cut immediately
EkinOne [13k\]: cut cut cut ~~~ my style :D
zee [10k\]: B should cut at r11
Heretix [20k\]: yes
wingnut [-\]: clear
agui [8k\]: yes thanks
sicbanana [15k\]: yep
EkinOne [13k\]: yup
]
;W[pk]CR[pk]
;B[oj]CR[oj]
;W[ok]CR[ok]C[EkinOne [13k\]: another extention
goglu [-\]: O10 
sicbanana [15k\]: o10?
jantiff [6k?\]: S10
tromp [2k\]: o10
zee [10k\]: B cannot have a good result if he connects at q9
DangoMouse [-\]: s10
agui [8k\]: O10
tromp [2k\]: atari is aji keshi
suducodu [?\]: I think
goglu [-\]: O10 first
Scribe [-\]: must extend to o10 first only then is force at s10 correct
]
(;B[nj]CR[nj]C[agui [8k\]: if not white plays there
sicbanana [15k\]: oh
]
(;W[ml]CR[ml]
;B[nk]CR[nk]C[zee [10k\]: B should o10 first
]
;W[nl]CR[nl]
;B[ol]CR[ol]
;W[qk]CR[qk]
;B[om]CR[om])
(;W[nk]CR[nk]
;B[rj]CR[rj]C[EkinOne [13k\]: hahaha
]
;W[qk]CR[qk]
;B[mj]CR[mj]TR[pi][pl]C[murky: not the same
goglu [-\]: black is way better
EkinOne [13k\]: B bigger
murky: Q11 bigger
okhna [15k\]: if w kills three its bigger
wingnut [-\]: yes, but look at the B influence
dynamite [11k\]: b bigger and black ahead in race :)
Heretix [20k\]: white will run into R4 and P4 
sicbanana [15k\]: but b corner
zee [10k\]: B moyo
EkinOne [13k\]: w is terrible shape
dynamite [11k\]: what shape? ^^
agui [8k\]: still not alive
])
(;W[rj]CR[rj]
;B[nk]CR[nk]
;W[ol]CR[ol]
;B[nl]CR[nl]
;W[om]CR[om]C[zee [10k\]: After W o9, the B can atari
]
;B[nm]CR[nm]C[sicbanana [15k\]: what if black takes r10 after atari?
]))
(;B[rj]CR[rj]C[EkinOne [13k\]: S10 1st
sicbanana [15k\]: hm
Scribe [-\]: take forcing move first
agui [8k\]: O10 first
sicbanana [15k\]: first kikashi
sicbanana [15k\]: :)
suducodu [?\]: s10 first
]))
(;B[pk]CR[pk]C[zee [10k\]: W q11 is very bad
zee [10k\]: B can cut or connect
jantiff [6k?\]: b has a choice of various cuts
Heretix [20k\]: R11
]
;W[qi]CR[qi]C[EkinOne [13k\]: R11
erc [4d\]: too heavy
]
;B[qk]CR[qk]C[Ahndraniel [15k\]: r11
]
;W[rk]CR[rk]C[Scribe [-\]: both options for black connect at q9 or cut at r11 work
ticktock [14k?\]: Or R9 is..
]
(;B[rl]CR[rl]C[sicbanana [15k\]: but this is the outcome of q9
]
(;W[rj]CR[rj]
;B[rm]CR[rm])
(;W[rm]CR[rm]
;B[rj]CR[rj]
;W[sl]CR[sl]
;B[ri]CR[ri]C[EkinOne [13k\]: oo... big cut :D
]
;W[oi]CR[oi]
;B[pm]CR[pm]
;W[ro]CR[ro]LB[pn:A]C[suducodu [?\]: Very bad
sicbanana [15k\]: b
offtosea [15k\]: for white
EkinOne [13k\]: W bad
Heretix [20k\]: bad for white
ArCosH [4k\]: both are bad
suducodu [?\]: for white
jantiff [6k?\]: bad for w, comparing to joseki
DangoMouse [-\]: how can both be bad?
sicbanana [15k\]: hehe
Scribe [-\]: very bad for white. weak group and isolated small group on side
sicbanana [15k\]: im was right :)
]
(;B[pn]CR[pn]C[sicbanana [15k\]: therefore r11
zee [10k\]: not good for B
]
;W[og]CR[og]C[jantiff [6k?\]: erf
]
(;B[qf]CR[qf]C[zee [10k\]: this result is good for W... alive and corner is open
Scribe [-\]: ouch
]
;W[rg]CR[rg])
(;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[qg]CR[qg])
(;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[qc]CR[qc]))
(;B[pg]CR[pg]C[Scribe [-\]: Black must connect at q9, the cut at r11 does not work
]
;W[pn]CR[pn]
;B[on]CR[on]
;W[po]CR[po]C[jantiff [6k?\]: so Q9 is too much ?
])))
(;B[rj]CR[rj]C[EkinOne [13k\]: so i rather hav R11 cut
]
;W[ri]CR[ri]
;B[rl]CR[rl]
;W[sj]CR[sj]
(;B[rm]CR[rm]
(;W[pm]CR[pm]
;B[om]CR[om]
(;W[on]CR[on]
;B[pn]CR[pn]
;W[qn]CR[qn]C[zee [10k\]: too heavy for W
]
;B[rn]CR[rn]
;W[po]CR[po]
;B[qo]CR[qo])
(;W[rn]CR[rn]C[sicbanana [15k\]: white r14?
]
;B[qn]CR[qn]
;W[pn]CR[pn]
;B[po]CR[po]))
(;W[qq]CR[qq]C[murky: audio?
sicbanana [15k\]: oh
DangoMouse [-\]: nice
]
;B[pq]CR[pq]C[Heretix [20k\]: murky: audio is fine
]
;W[qo]CR[qo]
;B[qn]CR[qn]
;W[rp]CR[rp])
(;W[oi]CR[oi]C[sicbanana [15k\]: thats a tricky one
])
(;W[oj]CR[oj]))
(;B[qq]CR[qq])))))
(;B[pk]CR[pk]C[sicbanana [15k\]: hm
wingnut [-\]: Q8 to build influence toward top
zee [10k\]: Whic is better q8, or q9
ElfeDeLune [?\]: the direction of the wall
jantiff [6k?\]: Q9 will build the bottom, Q8 the top
Lilltiger [10k\]: push white towards thickness =)
ElfeDeLune [?\]: wall attaching at the top or at the bottom
Medice [14k\]: white can play q6 after black q7 now?
EkinOne [13k\]: P4 n R4 is att
sicbanana [15k\]: w q11?
EkinOne [13k\]: so Q8 is the rite move
sicbanana [15k\]: me
Medice [14k\]: somehow
]))
(;B[oq]CR[oq]
;W[qj]CR[qj]C[tromp [2k\]: first play the stone yuou can sacrifice
]
(;B[qh]CR[qh]C[agui [8k\]: yes
]
;W[qm]CR[qm]
;B[jd]CR[jd]
;W[fc]CR[fc]C[wingnut [-\]: Q8 
agui [8k\]: Q8
sicbanana [15k\]: q9
jantiff [6k?\]: Q8 only ! :)
hansb [4k?\]: Q8
EkinOne [13k\]: Q8
sicbanana [15k\]: :)
goglu [-\]: Q8 for sure
jantiff [6k?\]: phew, i got at least this point right ^^;;
]
(;B[pl]CR[pl]C[Scribe [-\]: note: black stone now at p3 not p4
zee [10k\]: q8 if B wants to develop top
]
;W[ql]CR[ql]C[Scribe [-\]: to develope the top play q8
sicbanana [15k\]: ah
]
;B[pj]CR[pj])
(;B[pk]CR[pk]C[Scribe [-\]: to develope the bottom play q9
ihgo [5k\]: what about white P10 instead of R8 ?
]))
(;B[ql]CR[ql]
;W[qg]CR[qg]C[Scribe [-\]: q8 is the correct choice for this fuseki
]
;B[mc]CR[mc]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[gp]CR[gp]
;W[dn]CR[dn]C[Scribe [-\]: by analogy play q12 here to develope the bottom
EkinOne [13k\]: Q12
tromp [2k\]: q12
hansb [4k?\]: Q12
jantiff [6k?\]: i'm with wingnut,
agui [8k\]: Q12
Mirjam [19k\]: q12
]
(;B[ph]CR[ph]
;W[qh]CR[qh]
;B[pj]CR[pj]C[dynamite [11k\]: go is a weird game xD
wingnut [-\]: :)
offtosea [15k\]: ha!
zee [10k\]: q9 to develope lower side
sicbanana [15k\]: is that always like that? play the other side first if you want to take the other?
esuomikim [17k\]: ,,if you want to go to left go to right'' ^^
EkinOne [13k\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
Mirjam [19k\]: y
offtosea [15k\]: yes
sicbanana [15k\]: good to know
wingnut [-\]: "understand"
EkinOne [13k\]: this is very helpful
EkinOne [13k\]: gonna shot to SDK :D
wholeboard [8k\]: if w connects, how does b play
Heretix [20k\]: ok
agui [8k\]: ok
offtosea [15k\]: ok
])
(;B[pi]CR[pi]C[wingnut [-\]: Q12 shoulder hit - develope the bottom
]))))
(;B[pq]CR[pq]
;W[dd]CR[dd]
;B[qk]CR[qk]
(;W[mp]CR[mp]C[Scribe [-\]: play bottom side first to prevent black from developing on teh top
]
;B[po]CR[po]
;W[jp]CR[jp]
;B[jd]CR[jd]
;W[qf]CR[qf])
(;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[jd]CR[jd]
;B[jp]CR[jp]C[zee [10k\]: W can invade r14 in prev var
]
;W[po]CR[po]
;B[np]CR[np]
;W[qq]CR[qq]
;B[qr]CR[qr]
;W[qp]CR[qp]
;B[rr]CR[rr]
;W[qm]CR[qm]C[Scribe [-\]: play top side first to prevent black from developing the bottom
])))
(;W[dd]CR[dd]C[marmotte [?\]: ty
]
;B[pp]CR[pp]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[qd]CR[qd]
;B[qe]CR[qe]C[zee [10k\]: W needs to cross cut
]
;W[re]CR[re]LB[jc:A]C[agui [8k\]: ok Thanks
]
(;B[rf]CR[rf]LB[pb:B][jc:A]C[zee [10k\]: But it depends on situation
binky [12k\]: if B on J17?
]
(;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[oc]CR[oc]C[sicbanana [15k\]: are those the only 4 possibilites for the san san?
]
;B[pe]CR[pe]C[sicbanana [15k\]: k
]
;W[nb]CR[nb]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[lc]CR[lc]C[zee [10k\]: joseki
jantiff [6k?\]: no :)
jantiff [6k?\]: many tricks around 3-3
])
(;W[qf]CR[qf])
(;W[]
;B[jd]CR[jd]
;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[qb]CR[qb]C[zee [10k\]: But if B has k16, then W q18 is ok
]
(;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[nc]CR[nc])
(;B[nc]CR[nc]C[zee [10k\]: because W killed s14
sicbanana [15k\]: ok, have a nice day
wholeboard [8k\]: thanks!
Medice [14k\]: thank you
murky: thanks for the good stuff, Mingjiu
nux [22k\]: thanks
agui [8k\]: ok Thank you very much
Bodo212 [15k\]: thx
rakdver [13k\]: thank you
zepherin [14k\]: thanks
bonobo03 [9k\]: thx
Scribe [-\]: Xiexie Mingjiu
dynamite [11k\]: thank you, for teaching :)
esuomikim [17k\]: thank You very much : )
offtosea [16k\]: Thanks Mingjui
EkinOne [13k\]: tq
lilith [11k\]: thx for the game :p
Ahndraniel [15k\]: thanks
EkinOne [13k\]: tq
paoshan [11k\]: thx for teaching
EkinOne [13k\]: tq
Walas [17k\]: thanks
alarique [12k\]: thank you
EkinOne [13k\]: tq
pluszowy [13k\]: thanks
hansili [10k\]: thank you very much!
grozephor [8k\]: thank you
offtosea [16k\]: thanks Ing Foundation!
ManMachine [-\]: thank you for the teaching
gargantua [21k\]: thank you
snowmen [2d\]: thank you
Fobb [9k?\]: tnx
Scribe [-\]: Thanks to the Ing Foundation
HydeJackal [11k\]: tq
zee [10k\]: Thanks to you and the Ing foundation
kalistek [12k\]: thank you
zimazima [3k\]: thank you
offtosea [16k\]: thanks scribe
binky [12k\]: thank you mingjui
cidrolin [16k?\]: thx
pasodetodo [11k\]: thx 2 U mingjiu
wingnut [-\]: xie xie Mingjiu, Ing foundation & Scribe
skhao [10k\]: thanks
wholeboard [8k\]: bye
sicbanana [15k\]: cu!
rakdver [13k\]: good bye
salome [15k?\]: thx
agui [8k\]: See you next week
offtosea [16k\]: bye
binky [12k\]: bye
esuomikim [17k\]: bye
wingnut [-\]: bye
alarique [12k\]: bye
Scribe [-\]: Dont forget the HOMEWORK!
sicbanana [15k\]: bye
agui [8k\]: Bye 
ManMachine [-\]: bye
gargantua [21k\]: bye
Ahndraniel [15k\]: bye
murky: bye
salome [15k?\]: bye
grozephor [8k\]: bye
Scribe [-\]: zaijian
EkinOne [13k\]: bye
hansili [10k\]: bye
Sumo [8k\]: bye
Keido [14k?\]: bye
]
;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[rg]CR[rg]C[zee [10k\]: good for W
])))
(;B[jc]CR[jc]
;W[]
;B[rf]CR[rf]
(;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[pf]CR[pf]C[zee [10k\]: if B has k17, W cannot q18
]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[nb]CR[nb])
(;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[rg]CR[rg]))))
(;B[rc]CR[rc]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[sb]CR[sb]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
(;B[od]CR[od]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[nb]CR[nb]
;B[mc]CR[mc]
;W[kb]CR[kb]
;B[mb]CR[mb]
;W[kd]LB[pa:A]TR[kb][kd]C[zepherin [14k\]: I think I got the homework correct I worked on it like an hour
dynamite [11k\]: yes
goglu [-\]: Q19 
offtosea [15k\]: looks familiar
murky: WQ19, BP18, W P19, done
Scribe [-\]: Homework
murky: BQ19, W P18, BP19
murky: W dead
EkinOne [13k\]: ko?
snowmen [2d\]: ko
goglu [-\]: Q19 kills
erc [4d\]: kill w like chicken
dynamite [11k\]: q q19, b p18, w s19 => ko
dynamite [11k\]: q =w *
erc [4d\]: s19
Nexo [3k\]: s18 dead
bonobo03 [9k\]: w lives
kufr [12k?\]: no
EkinOne [13k\]: no w dies
sicbanana [15k\]: :)
Moooow [11k\]: w dies in gote
hansb [4k?\]: O19
EkinOne [13k\]: S19
Moooow [11k\]: awful stuff
]
;B[pa]CR[pa]
(;W[ob]CR[ob]LB[na:B][oa:A][qb:C]C[goglu [-\]: P19 
murky: P19
zepherin [14k\]: P19
offtosea [15k\]: o19
EkinOne [13k\]: S19
tromp [2k\]: p19
Mirjam [19k\]: r19
ratata [3k\]: p19
marmotte [?\]: lol
zimazima [3k\]: r18
lilith [11k\]: R 18 damezumari
playgo [5k\]: S19 
marmotte [?\]: teacher's going mad
Newbee [25k\]: A1 !p
agui [8k\]: R18
EkinOne [13k\]: S19
Medice [14k\]: p19.
sicbanana [15k\]: c?
]
(;B[oa]CR[oa]C[zimazima [3k\]: a
]
;W[na]CR[na]
;B[qb]CR[qb]TR[kb][kd]C[zimazima [3k\]: r18
wingnut [-\]: W out
Medice [14k\]: they wont be helping
ArCosH [4k\]: wont help
goglu [-\]: useless
offtosea [15k\]: do nothing
zee [10k\]: W dies
Scribe [-\]: dead
])
(;B[na]CR[na]
;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[ma]CR[ma]
;B[la]CR[la]C[zimazima [3k\]: ko
]
;W[lb]CR[lb]C[wingnut [-\]: ouch
])
(;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[ra]CR[ra]C[zimazima [3k\]: ko
]))
(;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[qb]CR[qb]))
(;B[oc]CR[oc]
(;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[mb]CR[mb])
(;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[ab]CR[ab]
;B[mb]CR[mb]
;W[ac]CR[ac]
;B[lc]CR[lc]C[dynamite [11k\]: w to kill? ^^
sicbanana [15k\]: hm
Scribe [-\]: new Homeworkd
Scribe [-\]: White to move
sicbanana [15k\]: w to live?
zee [10k\]: W to play
sicbanana [15k\]: hm
sicbanana [15k\]: k
]
;W[rs]CR[rs]C[ArCosH [4k\]: a19 was a bad move
]
;B[rp]CR[rp]
;W[rr]CR[rr]C[Medice [14k\]: q19
]
;B[qp]CR[qp]
;W[rq]CR[rq]
;B[pp]CR[pp]
;W[pr]CR[pr]C[rince [19k?\]: r19
]
;B[oq]CR[oq]
;W[os]CR[os]
;B[nr]CR[nr]
;W[ad]CR[ad]
;B[ns]CR[ns]C[sicbanana [15k\]: w to play too?
murky: thanks for two
sicbanana [15k\]: k
EkinOne [13k\]: Q18
wingnut [-\]: it's homework guys, not to be done now
zee [10k\]: B to play here
Scribe [-\]: White to move in the top problem
HydeJackal [11k\]: p2
EkinOne [13k\]: :D HEHEHE
sicbanana [15k\]: hehe
Bodo212 [15k\]: thx
Scribe [-\]: Black to move in the bottom problem
rince [19k?\]: i always did homework in school :P
binky [12k\]: W to move and live top
jantiff [6k?\]: ^^
Medice [14k\]: same here :P
]))))