(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[mingjiu]PB[mingjiu]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2005-06-12]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[zee [11k\]: homework time
]
(;B[rb]CR[rb]C[guojuan [5p\]: hihi
wrong [3d?\]: ni hao, liao shi
]
;W[rc]CR[rc]C[Bodo212 [15k\]: hello
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]C[wrong [3d?\]: homework??????
nannygoat [16k\]: hello
murky: Hello, LaoShi
]
;W[qd]CR[qd]C[kisai: hi we can hear you :) 
guojuan [5p\]: homework
]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[pd]CR[pd]C[wholeboard [9k\]: hi
Koreangrl8 [16k\]: Hi
]
;B[od]CR[od]C[wrong [3d?\]: oh, sound is good this time
guojuan [5p\]: we hear you
hansb [4k?\]: hello
agui [8k\]: Hello
]
;W[qf]CR[qf]C[smuin [?\]: hello
kisai: oh! nice microphone!
Katoan [9k\]: :)
Bodo212 [15k\]: sound is fine!!!
]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[qg]CR[qg]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[qh]CR[qh]C[Scribe [-\]: Ni Hao Mingjiu....sound is very good
]
;B[pg]CR[pg]C[Scribe [-\]: best ever
]
(;W[ph]CR[ph]C[wrong [3d?\]: he bough a big new microphone ^_^
])
(;W[ri]CR[ri]C[agui [8k\]: Sound very good !
wrong [3d?\]: bought*
]
;B[ph]CR[ph]
;W[rj]CR[rj]
;B[qi]CR[qi]C[kisai: good news ^^
zee [11k\]: homework analysis first
]
;W[sh]CR[sh]
;B[qj]CR[qj]
;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[rk]CR[rk]
;W[ab]CR[ab]C[wrong [3d?\]: pitty KGS doesn't feature video lessons :(
]
;B[qk]CR[qk]
;W[ac]CR[ac]C[kisai: ahah
]
;B[sj]CR[sj]C[Scribe [-\]: Homework from last week
puzi [12k\]: @ wrong: maybe kgs+++ will do in a few years ;)
hansb [4k?\]: i did
nannygoat [16k\]: i think i did
hansb [4k?\]: black kills
os69os [7k\]: W alive
Moooow [12k\]: i think i did not
nannygoat [16k\]: yes black kill
noel [14k\]: w lives small
norb [12k\]: s15
snowmen [2d\]: ko
murky: Found two kos
hansb [4k?\]: S15
agui [8k\]: S15
nannygoat [16k\]: s15
Ubiquity [?\]: T17
wrong [3d?\]: B s15-14 is interesting
kisai: no that one :-)
wrong [3d?\]: it never works THIS time
]
;W[ad]CR[ad]C[whistler [1k\]: it looks promising
whistler [1k\]: poor black
TheFlayer [7k\]: lol
murky: No wonder it dis not work
Scribe [-\]: Black can not kill this White
kisai: no he has good thickness :) 
hansb [4k?\]: S15 the S14 ?!
puzi [12k\]: why would white play such mean things? :'(
wrong [3d?\]: but doesn't work seems
Djeki [13k\]: what about s13 instead of s16
TheFlayer [7k\]: after t16
erikk [-\]: t14
]
(;B[re]CR[re]C[gc1 [2d\]: first move is obvious, the follow-up not so clear
TheFlayer [7k\]: T18 after T16 
]
;W[qe]CR[qe]C[hansb [4k?\]: S14
]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[sc]CR[sc]C[TheFlayer [7k\]: T18 after T15 
]
;W[sd]CR[sd]C[whistler [1k\]: but Q18 
Scribe [-\]: white t16 provides white an extra forcing move
]
;B[se]CR[se]
;W[rf]CR[rf]C[wrong [3d?\]: W lives
]
;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[sf]CR[sf]C[whistler [1k\]: yeah
wrong [3d?\]: maybe s14 after s15?
])
(;B[rf]CR[rf]C[TheFlayer [7k\]: S15 
agui [8k\]: R15
hansb [4k?\]: sur
]
;W[re]CR[re]C[Scribe [-\]: white lives
whistler [1k\]: T9 ?
whistler [1k\]: first move ?
TheFlayer [7k\]: S15 R15 S16 R17 T17 T16 T15 T18 T19 S14 
]
;B[rg]CR[rg]
;W[sf]CR[sf]C[whistler [1k\]: he means this S15 R15 S14 
whistler [1k\]: i think
]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[rh]CR[rh]C[hansb [4k?\]: first S15 then S14
]
;B[sd]CR[sd]
;W[sc]CR[sc]C[whistler [1k\]: what about s15
whistler [1k\]: then s16
])
(;B[rg]CR[rg]
;W[rf]CR[rf]
;B[sc]CR[sc]
;W[sd]CR[sd])
(;B[sk]CR[sk]C[whistler [1k\]: yup
TheFlayer [7k\]: white can take blacks corner
murky: cann't make two moves
]
;W[sf]CR[sf]C[whistler [1k\]: sometimes it works :)
])
(;B[sf]CR[sf]
;W[qe]CR[qe]C[whistler [1k\]: now t9 ?
whistler [1k\]: :)
]
;B[sk]CR[sk]C[TheFlayer [7k\]: yeah
whistler [1k\]:  T15 
]
;W[rf]CR[rf])
(;B[sc]CR[sc]C[KOCMOC [10k\]: w will pass, don;t worry
zee [11k\]: sound is back
hansb [4k?\]: audio is back
murky: restart , will work again
TheFlayer [7k\]: dead
Blastoff2 [23k?\]: i hear nothing
nicegame [12k\]: quit the game and go in again, it helped me
murky: t14\\
wrong [3d?\]: s13 :)
esuomikim [16k\]: Blastoff2 just go oun from this game and come again and it will work
impulse [10k\]: s13
wingnut [-\]: S15 
gc1 [2d\]: tricky problem :)
wingnut [-\]: W S15 
]
(;W[sd]CR[sd]C[zee [11k\]: t17 first
murky: how about t18
]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[sf]CR[sf]C[whistler [1k\]: neat
zee [11k\]: watch for the proper sequence
whistler [1k\]: hane kills
murky: sound?
zee [11k\]: lost audio
kyuplayer1 [11k\]: ...
]
;W[rf]CR[rf]C[zee [11k\]: thi t14 kills
]
;B[sk]CR[sk]C[kisai: aw
]
;W[sb]CR[sb]C[TheFlayer [7k\]: nice
]
;B[qc]CR[qc])
(;W[re]CR[re]C[kyuplayer1 [11k\]: ok
]
;B[rg]CR[rg]C[Blastoff2 [23k?\]: audio gone
]
;W[rf]CR[rf]
;B[sd]CR[sd]C[kisai: no its ok
wingnut [-\]: yep
murky: W t18, B T19, W Q18
wrong [3d?\]: W dies, but in a great style ;)
agui [8k\]: yes thanks
norb [12k\]: if your audio is gone restart
])
(;W[rg]CR[rg]
;B[sf]CR[sf]C[Blastoff2 [23k?\]: thanks, audio back
]
(;W[sd]CR[sd]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[sk]CR[sk]C[hikaumah [10k?\]: t11
])
(;W[re]CR[re]C[tbl [?\]: how about t14 for white
]
;B[sk]CR[sk]
;W[sd]CR[sd]
;B[sb]CR[sb]C[murky: t18 
TheFlayer [7k\]: dead
]))
(;W[sf]CR[sf]
;B[rg]CR[rg]
;W[rf]CR[rf]
;B[sd]CR[sd])
(;W[sb]CR[sb]
;B[sa]CR[sa]))))
(;B[pc]CR[pc]
(;W[pe]CR[pe]C[kisai: white is more pressured than b :) 
]
(;B[ph]CR[ph]C[kisai: like it
urtela [2k\]: p17?
]
(;W[md]CR[md]C[kisai: bah,, not fun :P
hansb [4k?\]: it is short, but is it simple?
Katoan [9k\]: there's no such thing as simple joseki...
kisai: N16 is fun
wrong [3d?\]: but simple josekis don't work against pros :(
]
(;B[pd]CR[pd])
(;B[oe]CR[oe])
(;B[ne]CR[ne]C[kisai: many variation
zee [11k\]: W o15 makes it simple
]))
(;W[ne]CR[ne]C[kisai: O15
zee [11k\]: simple joseki
puzi [12k\]: @ wrong: cho chikun plays almost only simple joseki
zee [11k\]: because it is easy for W to make eyes in corner
]
(;B[mc]CR[mc]C[guojuan [5p\]: it is very good to learn the simple josekis
kisai: :)
Katoan [9k\]: :)
agui [8k\]: :))
wrong [3d?\]: I mean for weak players playing against pros
zee [11k\]: after Bn17, W can tenuki
agui [8k\]: good shape
]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[oc]CR[oc]C[wrong [3d?\]: they can never get simple joseki, coz a pro won't allow it ;)
]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[pd]CR[pd])
(;B[nc]CR[nc]C[Scribe [-\]: When Black plays n17 easy for White to settle and make eyes in corner 
]
(;W[le]CR[le]C[kisai: pro will play M16 instead of N16 for example :P no joseki 
]
;B[lc]CR[lc]C[Scribe [-\]: When Black plays o17 harder for White to make eyes in corner
zee [11k\]: but W cannot tenuki after B o17
agui [8k\]: ok
])
(;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[ld]CR[ld]C[gc1 [2d\]: is it good to exchange R17 for R18 before tenuki ?
]))))
(;B[qg]CR[qg]C[kisai: i dislike this pincer
kisai: ^^
Scribe [-\]: White p14 split black !
wrong [3d?\]: how to punish?
vee [8k\]: awwwww
guojuan [5p\]: yes please :)
murky: Yes
norb [12k\]: plz
Blastoff2 [23k?\]: ok
kisai: lol 
offtosea [16k\]: please
]
(;W[qe]CR[qe]C[kisai: never know which answer is the best é_è
nanomoyo [2k\]: you do!
puzi [12k\]: looks horrible xD
murky: not me
kisai: :s ...
puzi [12k\]: p14?
kisai: i think ill resign if the opponent do this pincer XD
hansb [4k?\]: R17
Katoan [9k\]: haha
kisai: but b isnt making territory at top
]
(;B[of]CR[of]C[zee [11k\]: How to punish  W q15
puzi [12k\]: yeah
zee [11k\]: B o14 is the best response
]
;W[oe]CR[oe]C[wrong [3d?\]: r15 is a good move if W wants to make an even game into a handicap game
kisai: leaves Q17 
]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[nf]CR[nf]C[zee [11k\]: bad for B
])
(;B[oe]CR[oe]C[agui [8k\]: O16
murky: P16 better
]
;W[pg]CR[pg]C[kisai: XD
kisai: bad for b
]
(;B[of]CR[of]
;W[qh]CR[qh])
(;B[qh]CR[qh]
;W[of]CR[of]))
(;B[nd]CR[nd]C[kisai: w is  not a good player
Scribe [-\]: P14 is a good continuation for Black
wrong [3d?\]: never rush to punish, justice in Go is slow, like in real life
Scribe [-\]: punishing joseki mistakes is very hard....start with simple moves that build strength
puzi [12k\]: play simples moves the opponents mistake will punish itself
guojuan [5p\]: play simple move against your opponent's mistake
zee [11k\]: Play a simple move after opponent makes a mistake
kisai: =)
wingnut [-\]: clear
Blastoff2 [23k?\]: yes
nannygoat [16k\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes thanks
wholeboard [9k\]: clr
kisai: clear
wrong [3d?\]: don't try to punish opponent's mistake by makin a mistake yourself
guojuan [5p\]: yup :)
offtosea [16k\]: yes
Bodo212 [15k\]: yes
hansb [4k?\]: it is clear
vee [8k\]: crystal
wholeboard [9k\]: clear
wrong [3d?\]: yes, clear
]
(;W[of]CR[of]
;B[pi]CR[pi]C[Ahndraniel [15k\]: i  like it too
Scribe [-\]: very simple and strong for Black
])
(;W[ne]CR[ne]
;B[md]CR[md]C[kisai: hehe
]))
(;B[od]CR[od])
(;B[qc]CR[qc]C[kisai: the simplest way to play the joseki hehe
nanomoyo [2k\]: no
wrong [3d?\]: he he, an eye for an eye
]))
(;W[qc]CR[qc])
(;W[re]CR[re]C[wrong [3d?\]: even Go programs never play such moves
gc1 [2d\]: seems a bit heavy
])
(;W[of]CR[of]
;B[nd]CR[nd]
(;W[qc]CR[qc])
(;W[ph]CR[ph])
(;W[qe]CR[qe]C[kisai: :s
kisai: no
wingnut [-\]: heavy
zee [11k\]: now r15  is bad
]
;B[pi]CR[pi]C[kisai: useless
]))
(;W[nd]CR[nd])
(;W[pg]CR[pg])
(;W[pd]CR[pd]))
(;B[of]CR[of]))
(;W[qe]CR[qe]C[urtela [2k\]: nobi runs very fast! :)
gc1 [2d\]: that is funny :)  Reversing the order of moves.
]
;B[qg]CR[qg]C[agui [8k\]: R16
]
(;W[od]CR[od])
(;W[pe]CR[pe]C[murky: never Q15
kisai: *lost* 
])))
(;B[pe]CR[pe]C[wrong [3d?\]: if your Audi is gone, restart doesn't help ^_^
]
;W[pc]CR[pc]C[TheFlayer [7k\]: R17 
]
;B[nd]CR[nd]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[qd]CR[qd]C[Blastoff2 [23k?\]: yes
]
;B[pf]CR[pf]C[norb [12k\]: for me it works
gc1 [2d\]: yes
TheFlayer [7k\]: yes
]
(;W[nb]CR[nb]C[Wagner [?\]: j
zee [11k\]: Can W tenuki?
Scribe [-\]: Can White Tenuki ?
]
;B[pk]CR[pk])
(;W[aa]CR[aa]C[zee [11k\]: after q14
]
(;B[nb]CR[nb]C[zee [11k\]: answer is yes
gc1 [2d\]: You can tenuki again :)
hansb [4k?\]: yes white can tenuki
Scribe [-\]: Can White Tenuki again ?
Wagner [?\]: i think ko life in corner
zee [11k\]: but after o18?
urtela [2k\]: but if i was black i would seriously try to kill it
nannygoat [16k\]: yes
gc1 [2d\]: No way to kill I think
]
;W[ab]CR[ab]
;B[rb]CR[rb]C[gc1 [2d\]: R18 
hansb [4k?\]: R18
]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[rc]CR[rc]C[hansb [4k?\]: P18
gc1 [2d\]: P18 
]
;W[ob]CR[ob]C[murky: s15
nannygoat [16k\]: s15?
os69os [7k\]: s14
norb [12k\]: p17
akew [19k?\]: s15
hansb [4k?\]: Q16
gc1 [2d\]: Q16 
]
(;B[re]CR[re]
;W[rd]CR[rd]C[wrong [3d?\]: s15 doesn't help
]
;B[sd]CR[sd]
;W[rf]CR[rf]
;B[se]CR[se]
;W[rg]CR[rg])
(;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[qc]CR[qc]C[zee [11k\]: W still can tenuki but will live too small
]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[ra]CR[ra]
;B[oa]CR[oa]
;W[sb]CR[sb]C[Scribe [-\]: best for both
zee [11k\]: q18 is also sente for B
Scribe [-\]: Black has two sente moves here
zee [11k\]: B gets strong on the outside
Scribe [-\]: Black is very strong the outside
puzi [12k\]: if w tenuki 3times b thickness is superior
]
(;B[pb]CR[pb])
(;B[rf]CR[rf]
;W[ac]CR[ac]
;B[sc]CR[sc]C[gc1 [2d\]: black is thick but white has 2 tenukis
zee [11k\]: r14 sente for B
])))
(;B[ab]CR[ab]C[zee [11k\]: oops 20
]
(;W[nb]CR[nb]C[zee [11k\]: o18 is big
zee [11k\]: more than 29 pts
wrong [3d?\]: Sakata's joke: "I wonder if I can live after 3 tenukis?"
])
(;W[ac]CR[ac]C[DrGoPlayer [6k?\]: how black block now?
wrong [3d?\]: can W in any Var prevent B from building outside infuence?
gc1 [2d\]: P18 is sente I think
]
(;B[nb]CR[nb]C[agui [8k\]: Is P18 possible ?
zee [11k\]: B o18 is better for outside influence
agui [8k\]: ok clear , Thanks again
nannygoat [16k\]: yup
Chocobovn [6k\]: yes
]
;W[ad]CR[ad]C[DrGoPlayer [6k?\]: after w o18
]
;B[rb]CR[rb]C[wrong [3d?\]: 2 times tenuki
])
(;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[ad]CR[ad]
(;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
(;B[rb]CR[rb]
;W[ra]CR[ra]C[zee [11k\]: p18 sente
]
;B[rc]CR[rc]C[IAmCow [4k\]: an example of fuseki when tenuki in this joseki is goood?
]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[rf]CR[rf]
;W[sb]CR[sb])
(;B[re]CR[re]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[rf]CR[rf]
(;W[sb]CR[sb]
;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[qa]CR[qa]
;B[pd]CR[pd])
(;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[rc]CR[rc]C[Dionys0s [26k\]: i would make it ;)
agui [8k\]: ok Thank you very much
]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[od]CR[od])))
(;B[ba]CR[ba]
;W[pb]CR[pb]))))))
(;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[rb]CR[rb]C[Scribe [-\]: HomeWork
]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[qc]CR[qc]
;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[qd]CR[qd]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[rf]CR[rf]
;B[rg]CR[rg]C[wrong [3d?\]: hope it won't be  homework only guojuan will be able to do ^_^
]
;W[od]CR[od]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[nd]CR[nd]
;W[pe]CR[pe]
;B[ne]CR[ne]
(;W[qh]CR[qh])
(;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[qh]CR[qh]
(;W[qa]CR[qa]C[wrong [3d?\]: I have a problem on 9x9 board, almost impossible to solve :(
])
(;W[ab]CR[ab]C[CarlBarks [17k\]: F2 - edit tool, shift for white stones
zee [11k\]: B to play
Scribe [-\]: Black to move 
wrong [3d?\]: hmmm
zee [11k\]: W has r19 and extra liberty at p15
agui [8k\]: ok Thank you very much
wrong [3d?\]: these homeworks become more and more serious
Katoan [9k\]: thank you! :)
inte [?\]: bye
murky: many many many thanks
Chocobovn [6k\]: thx
wrong [3d?\]: thank You liaoshi
]
(;B[mb]CR[mb])
(;B[oe]CR[oe])))))