(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[guojuan]PB[guojuan]WR[5p]BR[5p]DT[2005-09-04]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[MysticoN [14k\]: yup
Ruutana [8k\]: Yes.
Idn [4k\]: hello !!!
murky: Hello
MysticoN [14k\]: u are lucky to travel much :)
hansb [7k\]: petanque
fab [1k\]: petanque is especially popular near marseille ;)
Idn [4k\]: la pétanque c trop bien :)
Idn [4k\]: :p
Sensee [8k?\]: Hello
wrong [2d?\]: ni hao liao shi
Scribe [-\]: Today's topic: Efficiency of moves
Scribe [-\]: Go is actually a game about efficiency
Sensee [8k?\]: wuuut, wuutzeesayin?
Scribe [-\]: each move must fulfill  a purpose that contributes to the goal
Scribe [-\]: Shuei -> http://senseis.xmp.net/?Shuei
Scribe [-\]: we have both o17 and p17 here already
Danilokun [11k\]: clear
ihgo [6k\]: yes
kongkaroo [9k\]: yes
wrong [2d?\]: yes
wrong [2d?\]: no no, no holoiday mood, u seem to be more cheerful
]
(;AW[qj][pp]AB[nc][qd]LB[qg:B][qh:A]TR[nc][qd]C[Scribe [-\]: this shape is becoming more popular among professionals that it used to be
Scribe [-\]: re: large knights move
goglu [-\]: Shuei
Scribe [-\]: Shuei played the large knight's move frequently
biomorph [14k\]: A
Boudje100 [7k\]: A
agui [8k\]: A
Puffin [14k\]: A
MysticoN [14k\]: A
Sensee [8k?\]: B
Scribe [-\]: select A or B for black, which ?
Idn [4k\]: <A
gert: a
WingZeros [17k\]: A
Batavia [11k?\]: B
zee [12k\]: A
offtosea [15k\]: b
BlueJays [-\]: B
MysticoN [14k\]: b
Anathos [?\]: A
Puffin [14k\]: A
weizenbier [11k\]: a
OldBoy [3k\]: a
braincrash [?\]:  b
goglu [-\]: A
b3rt [13k?\]: a
MysticoN [14k\]: I like both
MysticoN [14k\]: yup
Sensee [8k?\]: no
au2 [3k\]: yes
xela [8k?\]: yes
WingZeros [17k\]: yes
tibra [8k?\]: yes
gert: clear
ligo [?\]: v good
Boudje100 [7k\]: yes, very clear :D
wrong [2d?\]: school yearnstarted, summer vacation over ^_^
wrong [2d?\]: year started*
Boudje100 [7k\]: jup
ticktock [14k\]: Yes, the high shimari.
]
(;B[qh]CR[qh]C[frikazoid [5k\]: A  
Wook [-\]: A
]
;W[oj]CR[oj]C[wrong [2d?\]: a leaves a hole in B's territory
gert: b
]
(;B[oh]CR[oh]C[agui [8k\]: Yes , very clear
]
;W[qf]CR[qf]C[Boudje100 [7k\]: Yes, new world opening for me ^^
offtosea [15k\]: defense first
]
(;B[of]CR[of]
;W[qc]CR[qc]C[wrong [2d?\]: some stones are like cats, have 9 lives ;)
]
(;B[pd]CR[pd]C[Scribe [-\]: after whtie p10, black must defend and still white can invade at r12, followed by r17
]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[ob]CR[ob]LB[qf:A]C[Scribe [-\]: white has lived in corner
Scribe [-\]: aji from white r14 aided white corner in living
wrong [2d?\]: overconcentrated
Scribe [-\]: black is overconcentrated
])
(;B[rd]CR[rd]C[MysticoN [14k\]: hehe nice one :)
]
;W[oc]CR[oc]C[wrong [2d?\]: o16 here doesn't work?
Scribe [-\]: p17 key tesuji in this position
xela [8k?\]: bO16 wO18 lives?
Scribe [-\]: to learn these moves (example p17) do tsumego problems
]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[nd]CR[nd]
;W[qe]CR[qe]))
(;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[rh]CR[rh]
;B[ri]CR[ri]
;W[qi]CR[qi]
;B[rg]CR[rg]
;W[ph]CR[ph]
;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[pg]CR[pg]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[og]CR[og]LB[oh:A]))
(;B[pf]CR[pf]C[Scribe [-\]: solid
]
;W[nq]CR[nq]C[biomorph [14k\]: If O17 at P17, is A or B better?
]))
(;B[qg]CR[qg]C[Scribe [-\]: Shuei 1854-1907
]
(;W[oj]CR[oj]
;B[nq]CR[nq]C[Scribe [-\]: r13 is better for black, black can then tenuki after white p10
wrong [2d?\]: attack from the wider side (last lesson)
Scribe [-\]: one move and done
MysticoN [14k\]: yes
xela [8k?\]: but... if O17 is at P16 instead, then B is not good?
Sensee [8k?\]: she is a mother...
gert: clear
MysticoN [14k\]: yes
Kerrick [16k\]: yes
kilroy [8k\]: yes
tibra [8k?\]: yes
yayoyi [28k\]: yes
messiah [-\]: clear :)
agui [8k\]: yes very clear, thanks
])
(;W[]
;B[pk]CR[pk]
;W[pj]CR[pj]
;B[ok]CR[ok]
;W[oj]CR[oj]
;B[nk]CR[nk]LB[qh:A]C[Scribe [-\]: white will not want to play the one line jump, rather white will take sente.  this may allow black to play q9 (reduction) later
]
;W[rl]CR[rl]
;B[qm]CR[qm]
;W[ql]CR[ql]
;B[on]CR[on]C[Scribe [-\]: Shuei style play
])))
(;B[qd]CR[qd])
(;AW[qj][pp]AB[oc][qd]
(;B[qh]CR[qh]C[Boudje100 [7k\]: Overconcentrated?
au2 [3k\]: corner is more solid now
gert: no invasion for white
xela [8k?\]: Ah, R14 invasion not so good
agui [8k\]: corner more solid
xela [8k?\]: because w can't live in corner
Scribe [-\]: Here we have a knights move, not a large knights move, so black can play one line farther than before
wrong [2d?\]: B has better back-up here :)
xela [8k?\]: yes
au2 [3k\]: yes
gert: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
WingZeros [17k\]: which one are more efficient
messiah [-\]: no
wrong [2d?\]: can't get both, corner and sides
WingZeros [17k\]: ok
Scribe [-\]: Can you explain p16 as well ??
Scribe [-\]: the proper black move is further given p16, similar to p17
]
;W[oj]CR[oj]TR[oc][qd]C[Scribe [-\]: the corner is stronger, more solid
]
(;B[nq]CR[nq])
(;B[oh]CR[oh]
;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[of]CR[of]))
(;B[qg]CR[qg]))
(;AW[qj][pp]AB[od][qd]C[wrong [2d?\]: I think she said it'll be next time?
]
(;B[qh]CR[qh]C[Danilokun [11k\]: it is to get influenc isn ?
]
;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[pg]CR[pg]C[wrong [2d?\]: m17?
messiah [-\]: nice
])
(;B[qg]CR[qg]))
(;B[pp]CR[pp]
;W[nq]CR[nq]
;B[lq]CR[lq]
;W[no]CR[no]
;B[pn]CR[pn]
;W[kp]CR[kp]
;B[lp]CR[lp]
;W[lo]CR[lo]
;B[kq]CR[kq]
;W[jp]CR[jp]
;B[jq]CR[jq]
;W[ip]CR[ip]
;B[hq]CR[hq]C[messiah [-\]: yes
kilroy [8k\]: yes
Scribe [-\]: order issue ?
agui [8k\]: yes
Sensee [8k?\]: i hate that joseki...
xela [8k?\]: yes
gert: yes
Robert2299 [23k?\]: hello
Scribe [-\]: m4 before L3 ???
Robert2299 [23k?\]: is this where i can get lessons
ticktock [14k\]: yes, but I don't like white :-)
wrong [2d?\]: universal joseki^^
]
;W[mo]LB[mo:A]C[wrong [2d?\]: I never saw it in a pro game
]
(;B[dd]CR[dd]LB[mo:A][qq:B]C[gert: yes
messiah [-\]: yes
glorfindel [9k\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
ligo [?\]: y
xela [8k?\]: makes sense
Danilokun [11k\]: yeah
tibra [8k?\]: yes
])
(;AW[cf]AB[jc][dd]LB[mp:A]C[Scribe [-\]: Go Seigen says that n5 is too slow
]
;B[ch]CR[ch]C[Scribe [-\]: Go Seigen == Wu Qingyuan
]
;W[ef]CR[ef]
;B[fd]CR[fd]
;W[di]CR[di]
;B[dh]CR[dh]
;W[eh]CR[eh]
;B[ci]CR[ci]
;W[dj]CR[dj]
;B[cj]CR[cj]
;W[dk]CR[dk]
;B[cl]CR[cl]C[wrong [2d?\]: I wonder what Nie WeiPing thinks, he likes fighting
Sensee [8k?\]: E7 
]
;W[cc]CR[cc]C[Scribe [-\]: Go Seigen says c17 immediately in place of e13
xela [8k?\]: yes
Scribe [-\]: yes
messiah [-\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
kilroy [8k\]: yes
]
;B[cd]CR[cd]
;W[bd]CR[bd]
;B[dc]CR[dc]
;W[bb]CR[bb]
;B[cb]CR[cb]
;W[bc]CR[bc]LB[eg:A]C[gert: yes
Scribe [-\]: white lives in corner, the black cut at e13 is now not severe
messiah [-\]: because white lives in the corner? :P
gert: white can live
braincrash [?\]: w lives independent
wrong [2d?\]: B gets nothing
agui [8k\]: white takes the outside
Kerrick [16k\]: can connect to the corner
offtosea [15k\]: corner lives
ligo [?\]: live both sides
Sensee [8k?\]: why not e7? :<
agui [8k\]: yes 
messiah [-\]: yes
cdub [15k?\]: :)
gert: yes
xela [8k?\]: So if B d18 then W must play A?
Scribe [-\]: this is why one line of the joseki includes the black kick at p3 (c15)
gert: clear
au2 [3k\]: yes
pel [10k?\]: yep
Anathos [?\]: yes
ligo [?\]: convinced me
agui [8k\]: yes,clear
wrong [2d?\]: lego?
Sensee [8k?\]: go is like lego then?
Scribe [-\]: yes Lego building blocks from Sweden
Danilokun [11k\]: lego is so fun
MysticoN [14k\]: ^^
wrong [2d?\]: ah, that is why Windows isn't much efficient, too much code ^_^
Scribe [-\]: use lego to build the biggest house possible, same principle in go
MysticoN [14k\]: hahaha
Sensee [8k?\]: how can you use less legos to build bigger house?
murky: we understand lego better too
MysticoN [14k\]: good one wrong
]
(;B[eg]CR[eg]
;W[fg]CR[fg]
;B[dg]CR[dg]C[Danilokun [11k\]: w get 2 livs groups
]
;W[fi]CR[fi]C[Scribe [-\]: black e13 splits two strong groups....not severe
]
;B[df]CR[df]
;W[db]CR[db]
;B[eb]CR[eb]
;W[ca]CR[ca])
(;B[pr]CR[pr]C[gert: ok
Boudje100 [7k\]: jazeker
MysticoN [14k\]: yes
Anathos [?\]: ok
Sensee [8k?\]: ye
xDarigaaz [13k\]: yes
yayoyi [28k\]: :)
au2 [3k\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes very clear
wrong [2d?\]: yes
offtosea [15k\]: yes, thanks
wrong [2d?\]: very clear
Kamiah [?\]: very nice, thanks
yayoyi [28k\]: congratulations =)
])))
(;AW[qf][fq]AB[kc][nd][pd][cj][dn][dp]LB[qc:A][cq:B]TR[lc][mc][ck][cl][cm]C[wrong [2d?\]: holiday*
Scribe [-\]: compare top right with both left
gert: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
babysitter [19k?\]: y
MysticoN [14k\]: C8  cutting point
Boudje100 [7k\]: ofcourse we do ^^
wrong [2d?\]: one line
offtosea [15k\]: one stone extension
wrong [2d?\]: one line in Go = HUGE difference
messiah [-\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
wrong [2d?\]: invade^^
MysticoN [14k\]: b
goglu [-\]: A
yayoyi [28k\]: B
Anathos [?\]: B !
Boudje100 [7k\]: A
xela [8k?\]: A
gert: b
xDarigaaz [13k\]: b
hansb [7k\]: A goes first
nrgdw [6k\]: b
braincrash [?\]: b
Danilokun [11k\]: a
MysticoN [14k\]: B
wrong [2d?\]: a
OldBoy [3k\]: a
WingZeros [17k\]: A
agui [8k\]: a
Grimley [7k\]: a
Chalx [4k\]: a
Lestard [3k?\]: A
Danilokun [11k\]: a
au2 [3k\]: A
xela [8k?\]: A because black's territory is smaller
dmw [?\]: A
braincrash [?\]: b has more choice
ticktock [14k\]: A
Danilokun [11k\]: A
MysticoN [14k\]: nooo
MysticoN [14k\]: A
wrong [2d?\]: left is more open, so can attack later
MysticoN [14k\]: A
MysticoN [14k\]: :)
Scribe [-\]: White to play, which first r17 invasion or c3 invasion, which is more efficient ??
goglu [-\]: A since with one move black can secure
ticktock [14k\]: A almost territory
MysticoN [14k\]: b isnt so secure as A
Boudje100 [7k\]: Wrong is right ^^
gert: more success
Kerrick [16k\]: B because it is less protected
Keido [14k?\]: b
ligo [?\]: b is bigger
ticktock [14k\]: B needs extra move
hansb [7k\]: three space extension is ivadable
Batavia [11k?\]: A because you still have a C8 invasion?
Chalx [4k\]: upper side is closed in one move
messiah [-\]: B first ;)
au2 [3k\]: w may play C8 later
wrong [2d?\]: B needs ONE move to secure top
wrong [2d?\]: but 2 to secure left
Scribe [-\]: r17 invasion is more urgent that the c3 invasion
][wrong [2d?\]: holiday*
Scribe [-\]: compare top right with both left
gert: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
babysitter [19k?\]: y
MysticoN [14k\]: C8  cutting point
Boudje100 [7k\]: ofcourse we do ^^
wrong [2d?\]: one line
offtosea [15k\]: one stone extension
][wrong [2d?\]: holiday*
Scribe [-\]: compare top right with both left
gert: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
babysitter [19k?\]: y
MysticoN [14k\]: C8  cutting point
Boudje100 [7k\]: ofcourse we do ^^
wrong [2d?\]: one line
offtosea [15k\]: one stone extension
]
(;B[]C[wrong [2d?\]: is A always good, or only if W gets sente???
]
(;W[qc]CR[qc]C[biomorph [14k\]: A, black becomes less efficient
]
;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
(;B[re]CR[re]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[qe]CR[qe]
;W[ob]CR[ob])
(;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[rc]CR[rc]))
(;AB[qk][pp]
(;W[nq]CR[nq]
;B[pn]CR[pn]
(;W[pr]CR[pr]
;B[qq]CR[qq]
;W[kq]CR[kq]TR[qk][pn][pp][qq]C[Scribe [-\]: white r3 much more efficient that playing at q2
Boudje100 [7k\]: jup
offtosea [15k\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes, thanks
yayoyi [28k\]: agreeeeeeeee
gert: yes
glorfindel [9k\]: yes
kilroy [8k\]: agree
MysticoN [14k\]: as bright as a shining star
])
(;W[qq]CR[qq]C[xela [8k?\]: yes
Danilokun [11k\]: yea
wrong [2d?\]: basic one
]
;B[pq]CR[pq]
;W[pr]CR[pr]
(;B[qp]CR[qp]
;W[rr]CR[rr]
;B[rq]CR[rq]
;W[qr]CR[qr]C[gert: yes
])
(;B[or]CR[or]C[Anathos [?\]: yes
]
;W[qr]CR[qr]
;B[oq]CR[oq]
;W[ro]CR[ro]LB[qk:A]
;B[rn]CR[rn]
;W[qo]CR[qo]
;B[qn]CR[qn]
;W[po]CR[po]
;B[oo]CR[oo]
;W[np]CR[np]
;B[op]CR[op]
;W[nr]CR[nr]
;B[os]CR[os]
;W[qp]CR[qp]C[agui [8k\]: yes
xDarigaaz [13k\]: yep
messiah [-\]: yes
Kerrick [16k\]: yes
yayoyi [28k\]: =)
])))
(;W[cq]CR[cq])
(;W[dr]CR[dr]
;B[cq]CR[cq]
;W[iq]CR[iq]
;B[]
;W[dm]CR[dm])
(;W[jp]CR[jp])
(;W[jq]CR[jq]C[xela [8k?\]: yes
Boudje100 [7k\]: jup
Kerrick [16k\]: yes
xDarigaaz [13k\]: yes
glorfindel [9k\]: yes
messiah [-\]: yeah
gert: yes
agui [8k\]: yes , very clear
hikaru1989 [?\]: yes
Danilokun [11k\]: clear
yayoyi [28k\]: yeeeeaaah
]
;B[dr]CR[dr]C[wrong [2d?\]: as clear as an empty board^^
]
;W[dm]CR[dm]C[Scribe [-\]: on the bottom left d2 possible, dont have to invade at c3
Danilokun [11k\]: d 7
gert: ok, thanks
]
(;B[cm]CR[cm]
;W[cl]CR[cl]
;B[dl]CR[dl]
;W[em]CR[em]
;B[el]CR[el]
;W[cn]CR[cn]
;B[bm]CR[bm]
;W[fm]CR[fm]
;B[bn]CR[bn]C[Boudje100 [7k\]: jep, thanks
]
;W[fl]CR[fl]
;B[ej]CR[ej]
;W[fj]CR[fj]C[Scribe [-\]: white gains big influence outside
])
(;B[en]CR[en]
;W[dk]CR[dk]
;B[dj]CR[dj]C[Scribe [-\]: guojuan does not like the hane at c7, prefers to attack white at e6
]
;W[ek]CR[ek]C[wrong [2d?\]: this is nice
Scribe [-\]: Otake
wrong [2d?\]: Otake Hideo
playmore [2d\]: how about hane on top? E7 
gert: ok
wrong [2d?\]: Weiqi is so amazing, cannot compare to chess
]
;B[cm]CR[cm]
;W[bm]CR[bm]
(;B[cn]CR[cn]C[ligo [?\]: owo
agui [8k\]: :=)
]
;W[bk]CR[bk]C[Scribe [-\]: Otake -> http://senseis.xmp.net/?OtakeHideo
ligo [?\]: wow
])
(;B[cl]CR[cl]
;W[ck]CR[ck]
(;B[bk]CR[bk]C[agui [8k\]: very , very nice !!!
]
;W[bl]CR[bl]
(;B[cn]CR[cn]C[yayoyi [28k\]: what a good memory =)
]
;W[bj]CR[bj])
(;B[bj]CR[bj]
;W[cn]CR[cn]C[Chalx [4k\]: nice
gert: very good
]))
(;B[bl]CR[bl]C[Danilokun [11k\]: wow
]
;W[bk]CR[bk]TR[cj][dj]C[Scribe [-\]: remarkable move....miaoshou
wrong [2d?\]: she must have been amazed by this move, than no problem to remember
]))))))
(;B[rd]CR[rd]TR[kc]
(;W[md]CR[md]
;B[mc]CR[mc])
(;W[aa]CR[aa]LB[ej:B][dr:A]C[Scribe [-\]: white stone at c12 would make the c8 invasion easy
Scribe [-\]: otherwise white d7 is efficient
Boudje100 [7k\]: Can you show us how D7 continues?
gert: yes
Boudje100 [7k\]: yes
xDarigaaz [13k\]: yes
cdub [15k?\]: yes
Kiyomaro [17k\]: yes
xela [8k?\]: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
yayoyi [28k\]: yup
Danilokun [11k\]: ^^ yeah
]
;B[dr]CR[dr]LB[ch:A]C[MysticoN [14k\]: As one wise guy said , a moyo should be invaded when it needs 1 stone to complete territory
Scribe [-\]: white can still invade/reduce the left side
]
(;W[dm]CR[dm])
(;W[cl]CR[cl]))))
(;AW[cn][cp][jp][jq]AB[ep][hp][iq]C[MysticoN [14k\]: Weiqi is the most advance game in the world after my opinion
]
;B[cq]CR[cq]C[MysticoN [14k\]: so much to learn
]
;W[dq]CR[dq]
;B[dp]CR[dp]
;W[cr]CR[cr]
;B[co]CR[co]
(;W[bq]CR[bq]
;B[bp]CR[bp])
(;W[bp]CR[bp]
;B[eq]CR[eq]C[Scribe [-\]: taken from 4k game
]
;W[bq]CR[bq]
;B[dr]CR[dr]
;W[bo]CR[bo]
;B[cq]CR[cq]
;W[jn]CR[jn]
;B[dq]CR[dq]TR[ep][eq]C[Boudje100 [7k\]: that's 4k move :|
smudge [12k?\]: Two marked stones are not doing any thing
wrong [2d?\]: they're just hanging around the corner :)))
Scribe [-\]: the two stones at e3, e4 are without purpose
Chalx [4k\]: 4k sucks ^^
Boudje100 [7k\]: ghehe ^^
gert: -0% efficiency
agui [8k\]: yes
xDarigaaz [13k\]: yes
gert: thanks for free lesson!!!!!
wrong [2d?\]: I think all bureaucrats should learn Weiqi!!!!!!!!
wrong [2d?\]: to become more efficient
agui [8k\]: Ok, thank you very much
Kamiah [?\]: such useful ideas!
ransjo [10k\]: wrong: you are right
au2 [3k\]: THANKS TO ING FOUNDATION
WingZeros [17k\]: thanks
offtosea [15k\]: thanks!
wrong [2d?\]: Thank You, very inspiring lesson
Scribe [-\]: Thank to Ing Goe Foundation
Pepito [15k?\]: thank you
Boudje100 [7k\]: Thanks a lot Guo
au2 [3k\]: THANKS FOR A NICE LECTURE
Wook [-\]: thanks 
kilroy [8k\]: thanks you
gert: bye
Slarty [3k\]: thanks!!
wrong [2d?\]: thanks to ING foundation too
xela [8k?\]: thanks
Janez [3k\]: thx
Chalx [4k\]: thank you
Out [16k?\]: Thank you
ransjo [10k\]: thank you
Chiodus [20k\]: thanks
akew [17k\]: thanks
au2 [3k\]: thanks Scribe
Scribe [-\]: Xiexie GuoJuan Laoshi
wholeboard [8k\]: thank you
agui [8k\]: See you
wrong [2d?\]: Zai Jian
salasa [14k?\]: thx
WingZeros [17k\]: bye
SAD21 [14k?\]: thx
Boudje100 [7k\]: see ya, bye
hikaru1989 [?\]: bye thx
glorfindel [9k\]: cu
Codexus [14k\]: xiexie
mingjiu [7p\]: hi
nrgdw [6k\]: thx cu bye
au2 [3k\]: bye
xDarigaaz [13k\]: thx bye
nux [18k\]: thank you
tibra [8k?\]: bye
javhost [16k\]: thanx a lot
Boudje100 [7k\]: houdoe ^^
Zeppelin [26k?\]: thanks you
Fazor [5k\]: Thank you. One of your best lessons!
ticktock [14k\]: thanks
patanjali0 [9k\]: thanks
Danilokun [11k\]: ^^
Keido [14k?\]: bye
salasa [14k?\]: bye
])))