(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[mingjiu]PB[mingjiu]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2005-09-04]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[wrong [2d?\]: Ni hao liaoshi
Danilokun [11k\]: hi
glorfindel [9k\]: hi =)
wholeboard [8k\]: hi
xDarigaaz [13k\]: hiiiiiiiiiii
Fazor [5k\]: hi
Kerrick [16k\]: hello!
agui [8k\]: Hello
MysticoN [14k\]: hello
Janez [3k\]: hi
offtosea [15k\]: hi!
salasa [14k?\]: hi
au2 [3k\]: hello
yayoyi [28k\]: NIIII HHHAAAAOOOOO
Scribe [-\]: Nihao Mingjiu Laoshi
gertind: fine
ususario: Hi
Danilokun [11k\]: hi =
akew [17k\]: hello
Kawasan [4k?\]: hi
Danilokun [11k\]: =D
murky: Hello
wrong [2d?\]: nice weather after these November rains^^
]
(;B[qd]CR[qd]C[Keido [14k?\]: hi
RShadow [?\]: hi
]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
(;B[mc]CR[mc]C[Kerrick [16k\]: that would be fun :-)
]
(;W[of]CR[of]C[Scribe [-\]: First two joseki questions
gertind: !
agui [8k\]: no
gertind: no
Fazor [5k\]: no ^^
MysticoN [14k\]: no
ticktock [14k\]: no
Danilokun [11k\]: no
tibra [8k?\]: no
ususario: Hamete?
goglu [-\]: looks like it can be cut
Boudje100 [7k\]: guess e4 as well...
Fazor [5k\]: connect underneath w ko =)
gertind: 4e
agui [8k\]: P16
Sensee [8k?\]: efo?
Boudje100 [7k\]: P16 
wrong [2d?\]: non-joseki moves are good against middle and low kyus
xDarigaaz [13k\]: p16 isnt so good i think :)
gertind: 16p
wrong [2d?\]: but no one tries tham on tournaments
Scribe [-\]: white must not block at o16 and o15
wrong [2d?\]: ODD moves rarely lead to EVEN position
hansb [7k\]: black P15 immediately?
gertzu [-\]: no;)
wrong [2d?\]: reverse the other of moves^^
]
(;B[cp]CR[cp]C[MysticoN [14k\]: P15  ive seen
Scribe [-\]: SPLIT!
xDarigaaz [13k\]: no p15 :)
]
;W[eq]CR[eq]
(;B[hp]CR[hp]
;W[en]CR[en]C[gertind: yea
])
(;B[gq]CR[gq]
;W[en]CR[en]C[agui [8k\]: surely not :)
xDarigaaz [13k\]: i think no
gertind: no
agui [8k\]: e4
ususario: Trick play?
gertind: 4e
MysticoN [14k\]: E4  ?
]))
(;B[od]CR[od]C[wrong [2d?\]: them*
gertzu [-\]: its better but not much much better;)
]
;W[nd]CR[nd]C[wrong [2d?\]: this is like knock-down
MysticoN [14k\]: P15  !!
Scribe [-\]: Good for black, white p14 stone was move valuable than black n17 stone and black gets big corne
]
(;B[nc]CR[nc]C[Sensee [8k?\]: no
]
;W[pd]CR[pd]C[offtosea [15k\]: no
akew [17k\]: yes
]
;B[oe]CR[oe]C[xDarigaaz [13k\]: no 
]
;W[pe]CR[pe]
;B[ne]CR[ne]
;W[pc]CR[pc]C[Scribe [-\]: Black has been tricked
Danilokun [11k\]: lose the corner
MysticoN [14k\]: I think I know what move
Sensee [8k?\]: white
gertind: white
biomorph [14k\]: W
murky: W
goglu [-\]: that is probably what white wants
offtosea [15k\]: white
xDarigaaz [13k\]: white
Boudje100 [7k\]: nice for white
]
;B[dp]CR[dp]
;W[cn]CR[cn]
;B[cl]CR[cl]C[xDarigaaz [13k\]: i said p16 is bad :)
]
;W[fp]CR[fp]
;B[dn]CR[dn]
;W[dm]CR[dm]
;B[cm]CR[cm]
;W[dq]CR[dq]C[MysticoN [14k\]: C5 
hansb [7k\]: C5
Chalx [4k\]: c5
Sensee [8k?\]: E6 
gertind: 5c
]
(;B[co]CR[co])
(;B[cq]CR[cq]C[xDarigaaz [13k\]: ehh too complicated :)
MysticoN [14k\]: ah
Grimley [7k\]: white d5
]
;W[do]CR[do]
;B[en]CR[en]
;W[cp]CR[cp]
;B[ep]CR[ep]C[Scribe [-\]: c3 big mistake
]
;W[eo]CR[eo]
;B[eq]CR[eq]
;W[fn]CR[fn]C[MysticoN [14k\]: uh oh
xDarigaaz [13k\]: nice
]
;B[em]CR[em]C[Sensee [8k?\]: funny
braincrash [?\]: ack
]
;W[dr]CR[dr]))
(;B[oe]CR[oe]C[Boudje100 [7k\]: second looks better for black to me
]
(;W[nc]CR[nc]C[Sensee [8k?\]: O17 
Sensee [8k?\]: dun dun dun dun
gertind: yes
]
;B[ne]CR[ne]C[Sensee [8k?\]: wuuut, wuuutzeesaying?
]
;W[md]CR[md]C[Sensee [8k?\]: :,
]
;B[pc]CR[pc]C[MysticoN [14k\]: I though that was even better for black
]
;W[kd]CR[kd]TR[mc][of]C[MysticoN [14k\]: black
agui [8k\]: for black
goglu [-\]: good for black
gertind: black
goglu [-\]: P14 looks funny
MysticoN [14k\]: the stone is seperated from its mommy :(
])
(;W[ne]CR[ne]C[MysticoN [14k\]: no
MysticoN [14k\]: white got cutting point too in second
]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[pf]CR[pf]
;B[qe]CR[qe]C[MysticoN [14k\]: second !!!
gertind: second
offtosea [15k\]: 1st
])))
(;B[oe]CR[oe]C[gertind: !
Scribe [-\]: best way to punish
akew [17k\]: why white have to P14?
Scribe [-\]: is p15
offtosea [15k\]: what if white answers w p16?
salasa [14k?\]: ok
caterpillr [8k?\]: that doesnt make sense
]
(;W[ne]CR[ne]C[Sensee [8k?\]: no good
]
;B[od]CR[od]C[MysticoN [14k\]: Oh this is so good
]
;W[nd]CR[nd]C[Boudje100 [7k\]: it's forcing .... great
]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[MysticoN [14k\]: hahah
]
;W[pf]CR[pf]
;B[qe]CR[qe])
(;W[nd]CR[nd]LB[od:B][ne:A]C[agui [8k\]: o15
gertind: a
ticktock [14k\]: a
glorfindel [9k\]: b
Danilokun [11k\]: b
xela [8k?\]: B -- same shape as before
MysticoN [14k\]: b
yayoyi [28k\]: B
RShadow [?\]: b
xDarigaaz [13k\]: b
hansb [7k\]: A
MysticoN [14k\]: b is like example 1
Keido [14k?\]: a
wrong [2d?\]: mingjiu seems to be as happy as Hikaru when winning a game ^_^
]
(;B[od]CR[od]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[ne]CR[ne]
;W[md]CR[md]
;B[pc]CR[pc]
;W[kd]CR[kd])
(;B[ne]CR[ne]
;W[md]CR[md]C[murky: I like this move
]
(;B[od]CR[od]
;W[nc]CR[nc]C[Scribe [-\]: black should extend at o15
gertind: no
])
(;B[kd]CR[kd]
;W[pe]CR[pe]
;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[od]CR[od]
;B[pf]CR[pf]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[rf]CR[rf]
;B[rg]CR[rg]C[glorfindel [9k\]: yes
]
;W[qg]CR[qg]
;B[pg]CR[pg]
;W[me]CR[me]C[xDarigaaz [13k\]: yes
gertind: yes
agui [8k\]: yes
])
(;B[nf]CR[nf]C[Boudje100 [7k\]: yes, now playing these things myself ^^
]
;W[lc]CR[lc])))
(;W[od]CR[od]C[offtosea [15k\]: not good, huh?
]))
(;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[qe]CR[qe]C[murky: Isn't this joseki result?
]
;W[jd]CR[jd]C[Scribe [-\]: black failed to punish....good fro white
agui [8k\]: yes
wrong [2d?\]: clear
offtosea [15k\]: helpful
salasa [14k?\]: is this good for white
gertind: yes
]))
(;W[od]CR[od]C[wrong [2d?\]: mingjiu's comments are great^^
murky: once
Scribe [-\]: big mistake by white to extend to p16
mmimmi: sometimes yes :)
Scribe [-\]: much too slow....funny even
]
;B[cp]CR[cp]
;W[ep]CR[ep]
;B[gq]CR[gq]
;W[eq]CR[eq]C[wrong [2d?\]: it's a pitty we all can't gather at one place :(
]))
(;B[ld]CR[ld]
;W[of]CR[of]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[ne]CR[ne]
;B[od]CR[od]C[wrong [2d?\]: never be late to punish opponent's unreasonable extensions
]
;W[nd]CR[nd]LB[mc:A][nc:B]TR[ld]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[pc]CR[pc]))
(;B[pe]CR[pe]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[nd]CR[nd]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[qd]CR[qd]
(;B[qc]CR[qc]LB[qb:B][rc:A]C[goglu [-\]: R18 
Scribe [-\]: joseki so far
Scribe [-\]: where should white play ?
salasa [14k?\]: b
gertind: b
hikaru1989 [?\]: b
ticktock [14k\]: b
]
(;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[rc]CR[rc]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[sc]CR[sc]
(;B[pg]CR[pg]C[Scribe [-\]: joseki
]
;W[of]CR[of]
;B[pf]CR[pf]C[gertind: no
agui [8k\]: no
Chalx [4k\]: very clear
RShadow [?\]: ok
])
(;B[pf]CR[pf]C[Scribe [-\]: also joseki
]))
(;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[pb]CR[pb]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[ob]CR[ob]
;W[nc]CR[nc]
;B[mc]CR[mc])
(;W[oc]CR[oc]C[hansb [7k\]: R18
Lestard [3k?\]: r18 for black
agui [8k\]: S17
xela [8k?\]: R14?
glorfindel [9k\]: s17
Kerrick [16k\]: s17
au2 [3k\]: S18 for b
]
(;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[rc]CR[rc]
;W[rb]CR[rb]C[Scribe [-\]: whites plan
]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[sc]CR[sc]
;B[pf]CR[pf]LB[nc:B][oc:A]C[Scribe [-\]: white corner now larger
])
(;B[qf]CR[qf]C[glorfindel [9k\]: yes
wrong [2d?\]: doesn't R18 lead to ko????
wrong [2d?\]: I have a var. that leads to ko
]
(;W[qb]CR[qb]
;B[rc]CR[rc]C[Danilokun [11k\]: o 17
xDarigaaz [13k\]: r18
])
(;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[qb]CR[qb]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[rf]CR[rf]
;W[re]CR[re]
;B[se]CR[se]LB[nc:A]
(;W[rd]LB[rd:B][pf:A]
(;B[nc]CR[nc]C[agui [8k\]: q18
]
;W[pf]CR[pf]C[seidelin [8k\]: give up
gertind: no
]
;B[do]CR[do]C[wrong [2d?\]: no
]
;W[dq]CR[dq]C[ticktock [14k\]: no
]
;B[fp]CR[fp]
;W[co]CR[co]
;B[dp]CR[dp]
;W[cp]CR[cp]
;B[cq]CR[cq]
;W[cr]CR[cr]
;B[bq]CR[bq]
;W[br]CR[br]
;B[eq]CR[eq]
;W[dr]CR[dr]
;B[cn]CR[cn]
;W[bp]CR[bp]
;B[bo]CR[bo]
;W[aq]CR[aq]
;B[dm]CR[dm])
(;B[pf]CR[pf]C[agui [8k\]: no
]
;W[nc]CR[nc]C[gertind: no\\
wrong [2d?\]: n
ticktock [14k\]: no
]))
(;W[pf]CR[pf])))
(;B[qb]CR[qb]C[wrong [2d?\]: ko
]
(;W[qf]CR[qf]
;B[nc]CR[nc]C[wrong [2d?\]: oh...
wrong [2d?\]: W o17 is joseki
Scribe [-\]: black refutation
])
(;W[nc]CR[nc]C[agui [8k\]: r14
wrong [2d?\]: b r14
]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[rf]CR[rf]C[wrong [2d?\]: s13
Dakre [2k?\]: s13
agui [8k\]: s13
]
;B[rg]CR[rg]
(;W[pf]CR[pf]
;B[qg]CR[qg]TR[nd][pd][pe]
;W[od]CR[od]
;B[oe]CR[oe]
;W[ne]CR[ne]
;B[of]CR[of]
;W[md]CR[md]
;B[ng]CR[ng]C[murky: super for B
offtosea [15k\]: good for black
agui [8k\]: good for black
xDarigaaz [13k\]: black still bigger
Chalx [4k\]: b is better
gertind: good for black
])
(;W[re]CR[re]
;B[qg]CR[qg]
;W[rc]CR[rc]C[goglu [-\]: early in the game, no threat
]
;B[rb]CR[rb]C[wrong [2d?\]: t18
]
;W[sb]CR[sb]C[wrong [2d?\]: ko
playmore [2d\]: flower ko
murky: W dies
Dakre [2k?\]: ko... ;)
wrong [2d?\]: t16
]
;B[sd]CR[sd]C[EkinOne [11k\]: w kill b
]
;W[sc]CR[sc]
;B[sf]CR[sf]
;W[rd]CR[rd]
;B[sg]CR[sg]
;W[se]CR[se]
;B[sa]CR[sa]C[Dakre [2k?\]: t19
]
;W[ra]CR[ra]
;B[qa]CR[qa]C[wrong [2d?\]: depends on the threats available
wrong [2d?\]: big one
agui [8k\]: big for black
])))))
(;B[qb]CR[qb]))
(;B[rd]CR[rd]C[wrong [2d?\]: 6:19
]
(;W[ra]CR[ra]C[gertind: homework time
]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[pb]CR[pb])
(;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[pb]CR[pb]
;B[pd]CR[pd]
;W[oa]CR[oa]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[ab]CR[ab]
;B[na]CR[na]
(;W[nd]CR[nd])
(;W[ac]CR[ac]
;B[nd]CR[nd]C[wrong [2d?\]: i wasn't here last time, and couldn't find it in SGF :(
wrong [2d?\]: t19 is ko
]
(;W[rb]CR[rb]C[wrong [2d?\]: that is an old one
])
(;W[qb]CR[qb]LB[ra:D][ob:A][sb:C][sc:B]C[wrong [2d?\]: found 4 till now
gertind: 7
ab69f [?\]: Does this include nuclear esuji, gertind ?
ab69f [?\]: *tesuji
RShadow [?\]: 1-18
wrong [2d?\]: p18?
WingZeros [17k\]: Q19?
Kerrick [16k\]: i am 16k i am happy with 4 =)
abbadan [?\]: D
RShadow [?\]: D
wrong [2d?\]: r17 is ko
wrong [2d?\]: but.. s19
wrong [2d?\]: so, 4 ways^^
trilobite [9k\]: c
SanRenSei [11k?\]: r17?
Kerrick [16k\]: of course
yanhai [6d\]: d
ab69f [?\]: Yea I like finding another ones
WingZeros [17k\]: S18
Scribe [-\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?BentFourInTheCorner
]
(;B[ob]CR[ob]C[Kerrick [16k\]: p18, s19, t18, t17 i think
])
(;B[sb]CR[sb]
;W[sc]CR[sc]
;B[ob]CR[ob])
(;B[sc]CR[sc]
;W[sb]CR[sb]
(;B[qc]CR[qc]
;W[ra]CR[ra]C[wrong [2d?\]: no no
])
(;B[ra]CR[ra]C[wrong [2d?\]: b s19
]))
(;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[qa]CR[qa]
;B[ob]CR[ob])
(;B[pa]CR[pa]
;W[ob]CR[ob]C[WingZeros [17k\]: oh
ab69f [?\]: T19 people, T19.
ab69f [?\]: I tell you
])
(;B[sa]CR[sa]C[ab69f [?\]: XD
ab69f [?\]: :)
wrong [2d?\]: is it?
xela [8k?\]: w s19
ligo [?\]: s19
ab69f [?\]: *sniff*
]
(;W[ob]CR[ob]C[wrong [2d?\]: no?
gertind: no
]
;B[sc]CR[sc])
(;W[ra]CR[ra]C[wrong [2d?\]: oh... blind me
]
;B[cp]CR[cp]
;W[cq]CR[cq]
;B[dp]CR[dp]
;W[br]CR[br]
;B[dq]CR[dq]
;W[cr]CR[cr]
;B[dr]CR[dr]
;W[bp]CR[bp]
;B[bo]CR[bo]
;W[aq]CR[aq]C[wrong [2d?\]: 1-1 point always tend to make me foolish :(
]
;B[ds]CR[ds]
;W[cs]CR[cs]
;B[ao]CR[ao]
;W[ad]CR[ad]C[WingZeros [17k\]: A4
xela [8k?\]: A4
]
(;B[ap]CR[ap]C[gertind: 4a
]
;W[as]CR[as]C[xela [8k?\]: ko
])
(;B[as]CR[as]
;W[ap]CR[ap]LB[ra:B][sa:A]C[wrong [2d?\]: doesn't work
xela [8k?\]: w A4 bA2 atari!
])))
(;B[qc]CR[qc]C[wrong [2d?\]: ko?
]
(;W[sc]CR[sc]
;B[ra]CR[ra]
;W[rb]CR[rb]
;B[sa]CR[sa]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[qa]CR[qa]C[ligo [?\]: ok
xela [8k?\]: bent four is not seki
jiku [10k\]: no
Scribe [-\]: bent four in corner
ligo [?\]: bent 4
gertind: dead
])
(;W[ra]CR[ra]C[wrong [2d?\]: s19
]
;B[sc]CR[sc]
;W[sb]CR[sb]C[gertind: ko
ligo [?\]: or seki
]))))))
(;B[qc]CR[qc]
;W[rc]CR[rc]
;B[rd]CR[rd]
;W[qd]CR[qd]
;B[re]CR[re]
;W[qe]CR[qe]
;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[sd]CR[sd]
;B[rf]CR[rf]
;W[pc]CR[pc]
;B[of]CR[of]
;W[pd]CR[pd]
;B[od]CR[od]
;W[oc]CR[oc]
;B[nc]CR[nc]
;W[ob]CR[ob]
;B[nb]CR[nb]
;W[aa]CR[aa]
;B[nd]CR[nd]
;W[ab]CR[ab]
;B[lb]CR[lb]C[Scribe [-\]: Black to move
murky: Black's turn
Scribe [-\]: clearly else white r18
gertind: ok
murky: thank you very much
au2 [3k\]: THANKS TO THE ING FOUNDATION
wrong [2d?\]: Xiexie liaoshi, thanks to ING foundation too
WingZeros [17k\]: thanks
Kerrick [16k\]: thank you!
ab69f [?\]: I have a slight idea how to kill this... it involves a very interesting point.
xela [8k?\]: thanks
gertind: thanks
wholeboard [8k\]: thank you
Scribe [-\]: Thanks to the Ing Goe Foundation
agui [8k\]: thank you , very much
xDarigaaz [13k\]: thank you
au2 [3k\]: THANKS FOR A NICE LECTURE
Out [16k?\]: Thank you
ab69f [?\]: thanks :D
javhost [16k\]: thanx a lot
offtosea [15k\]: thanks mingjui!
wrong [2d?\]: Zai jian
gertind: ok'
Zeppelin [26k?\]: Thanks
au2 [3k\]: thanks Scribe
holosys [?\]: cheers
Pepito [15k?\]: thank you
EkinOne [11k\]: TQ
agui [8k\]: see you
RShadow [?\]: thanks
Scribe [-\]: Xiexie Mingjiu Laoshi
offtosea [15k\]: thanks Ing Foundation and scribe
Keido [14k?\]: thx, bye
WingZeros [17k\]: bye thanks
gertind: ok thank you
abbadan [?\]: thanks!
gertind: bye
au2 [3k\]: bye
ab69f [?\]: Yup. Bye ^^
Tyler [4k\]: Thank you.
xDarigaaz [13k\]: see u bye
au2 [3k\]: have a nice week
abbadan [?\]: c u
cdub [15k?\]: :)
]))