(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2] RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[1800] PW[mingjiu]PB[mingjiu]WR[7p]BR[7p]DT[2006-05-14]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[Gaijin [17k\]: needs follow up if goona play Scribe [-\]: New Homework ! Kanako16 [25k\]: homework?! ] (;B[na]CR[na] ;W[ob]CR[ob]C[rakdver [6k\]: hello ] ;B[nb]CR[nb] ;W[oc]CR[oc] ;B[mb]CR[mb]C[Ciovo [8k?\]: hi ] ;W[od]CR[od] ;B[nc]CR[nc] ;W[nd]CR[nd] ;B[md]CR[md]C[agui [7k?\]: Hello ] ;W[me]CR[me]C[LT [12k?\]: hello ] ;B[ld]CR[ld]C[isshinryu [14k\]: hi ] ;W[le]CR[le] ;B[kd]CR[kd]C[Forou [?\]: this problem is impossible.. ] ;W[ke]CR[ke] ;B[kc]CR[kc] ;W[jd]CR[jd]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: hello pel [10k\]: :) FRaiSoo [9k\]: hi Ciovo [8k?\]: yess SitaRam [2d?\]: yes agui [7k?\]: yes FRaiSoo [9k\]: yes Myshkin [18k\]: Yes Shikasta [15k\]: hi Vanya [11k\]: yes rakdver [6k\]: yes Codexus [15k\]: hello :) Ogakusei [14k\]: yes isshinryu [14k\]: yes fu [15k?\]: hello Worthless [6k?\]: Yes/ Forou [?\]: hi and yes xDarigaaz [8k\]: Hi yes Scribe [-\]: Nihao grossebaf [4k?\]: hi mingjiu Kevintju [-\]: hi SILD [5k\]: hi troll [2k\]: good morning ] ;B[] ;W[lc]CR[lc] ;AW[hc][ic][ie]C[Scribe [-\]: Homework from last week kaila [5k?\]: k18 Scribe [-\]: Homework from two weeks ago gotobigo [?\]: K18 kills Scribe [-\]: White to play Forou [?\]: m19 and k18 looks like miai Forou [?\]: I couldnt solve it :( Repacse [12k\]: white kills kaila [5k?\]: k18 SitaRam [2d?\]: b dead Vanya [11k\]: ko kaila [5k?\]: no ko kaila [5k?\]: k18 Forou [?\]: It is very hard! Forou [?\]: impossible :( ] ;B[]C[Blackstorm [9k\]: ops ^^ Scribe [-\]: again m19 is key point SitaRam [2d?\]: k18 Vanya [11k\]: K19 napster [?\]: L19* ] (;W[kb]CR[kb]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: alive agui [7k?\]: m18 Forou [?\]: black plays k18 isshinryu [14k\]: l18 Hoshiman [7k\]: m18? kaila [5k?\]: m18 Forou [?\]: k18 makes seki.. SILD [5k\]: m18 is ko Blackstorm [9k\]: m 18 SitaRam [2d?\]: k18 napster [?\]: L10 ] (;B[lb]CR[lb]C[mpu [-\]: M19 Hoshiman [7k\]: I think m18 works SitaRam [2d?\]: no agui [7k?\]: yes Hoshiman [7k\]: maby Vanya [11k\]: M19 ] ;W[jc]CR[jc]C[SILD [5k\]: its ko ] ;B[mc]CR[mc]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: ko ] ;W[la]CR[la]C[SILD [5k\]: like i said SILD [5k\]: ^^ Scribe [-\]: creates ko ] ;B[jb]CR[jb] ;W[ja]CR[ja]) (;B[la]CR[la]C[capt [2k?\]: m19 seems to be a good point ;) ] (;W[jc]CR[jc] ;B[mc]CR[mc]) (;W[lb]CR[lb] ;B[jb]CR[jb]))) (;W[lb]CR[lb]C[Forou [?\]: black k18 agui [7k?\]: L18 Vanya [11k\]: K18 Blackstorm [9k\]: k 18 SitaRam [2d?\]: m19 SitaRam [2d?\]: yeah Forou [?\]: if white plays m19 black can play k18.. ] (;B[jb]CR[jb]C[Forou [?\]: black k18, white m19, black n17 ] ;W[la]CR[la] ;B[kb]CR[kb]C[Forou [?\]: ah right that first:) Hoshiman [7k\]: seki ] ;W[ib]CR[ib] ;B[ja]CR[ja]) (;B[la]CR[la] (;W[ka]CR[ka] ;B[kb]CR[kb] ;W[ma]CR[ma]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: jo seki ] ;B[mc]CR[mc]) (;W[kb]CR[kb] ;B[jb]CR[jb] ;W[ka]CR[ka] ;B[mc]CR[mc] ;W[ma]CR[ma] ;B[ja]CR[ja]))) (;W[jb]CR[jb]C[Blackstorm [9k\]: m 19 ] ;B[la]CR[la]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: no Blackstorm [9k\]: m1 ]) (;W[ja]CR[ja]C[napster [?\]: L19 sajmon [11k\]: m19 first move ] ;B[la]CR[la]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: no capt [2k?\]: m19 Forou [?\]: it is impossible -_- AescCasper [9k\]: M19 fu [15k?\]: w m19? ]) (;W[la]CR[la]C[Forou [?\]: white m19, black k18 Forou [?\]: black k18!! Scribe [-\]: liberty at p19 allows seki napster [?\]: L18 w? Ciovo [8k?\]: what rank to solve this problem in about 5 min ... ?! ] (;B[lb]CR[lb]C[napster [?\]: yes fu [15k?\]: b L18 SILD [5k\]: no AescCasper [9k\]: yes ] ;W[jb]CR[jb]C[Forou [?\]: bad... Scribe [-\]: no eye on edge ]) (;B[kb]CR[kb] ;W[jb]CR[jb] ;B[ka]CR[ka] ;W[lb]CR[lb]C[Forou [?\]: bad... Scribe [-\]: dead FRaiSoo [9k\]: dead ]) (;B[jb]CR[jb]C[Hoshiman [7k\]: k18 agui [7k?\]: L18 Vanya [11k\]: K19? ] (;W[lb]CR[lb]C[Vanya [11k\]: clear Forou [?\]: what if black plays 18j? ] ;B[kb]CR[kb]C[Scribe [-\]: seki again ] (;W[ib]CR[ib] ;B[ja]CR[ja]LB[oa:A]C[Forou [?\]: impossible to kill ... ]) (;W[ja]CR[ja]C[Forou [?\]: instead of j19.. Vanya [11k\]: J18 napster [?\]: J18 Scribe [-\]: must ] (;B[ib]CR[ib]) (;B[ia]CR[ia] ;W[ib]CR[ib]))) (;W[kb]CR[kb] ;B[lb]CR[lb]C[Forou [?\]: ... Dita [5k\]: hehe Scribe [-\]: L18 is thank you move napster [?\]: :) ]) (;W[ja]CR[ja]C[Forou [?\]: hmmm Vanya [11k\]: 5 years troll [2k\]: minutes Dita [5k\]: hehe FRaiSoo [9k\]: ... LeFourBe [-\]: seem pretty difficult :) Quinn [9k\]: i guess 4d ama Forou [?\]: a little hehe... Forou [?\]: okay :^_^ Dita [5k\]: yes plz! :D Codexus [15k\]: yes :) SILD [5k\]: ok Repacse [12k\]: was that a kuy problem ? napster [?\]: why no? LeFourBe [-\]: to find it in a real game, even harder :) ] (;B[kb]CR[kb] ;W[ib]CR[ib] ;B[ka]CR[ka]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: ah ] ;W[lb]CR[lb]) (;B[ia]CR[ia]C[Forou [?\]: black j18? ] ;W[lb]CR[lb]C[Vanya [11k\]: L18 ] (;B[kb]CR[kb] ;W[ib]CR[ib]) (;B[mc]CR[mc]C[Scribe [-\]: after white k19 black must extend at j18 ] ;W[ib]CR[ib]C[Forou [?\]: black dont play 19j! Forou [?\]: but play black 18? ])) (;B[ib]CR[ib]C[Forou [?\]: then what? Vanya [11k\]: J18 LeFourBe [-\]: L18 to ko Vanya [11k\]: L18 agui [7k?\]: H18 isshinryu [14k\]: m 18 ] (;W[lb]CR[lb] ;B[kb]CR[kb]LB[ja:A][ib:B]) (;W[kb]CR[kb] (;B[lb]CR[lb] ;W[jc]CR[jc]C[Scribe [-\]: ko Forou [?\]: hmmmm ]) (;B[jc]CR[jc] ;W[hb]CR[hb] ;B[ia]CR[ia] ;W[lb]CR[lb] ;B[mc]CR[mc]C[FRaiSoo [9k\]: lol. ] ;W[ha]CR[ha]C[Scribe [-\]: two step ko napster [?\]: this is the answer? Forou [?\]: 2 steb ko was the solution... ? Vanya [11k\]: no isshinryu [14k\]: nope agui [7k?\]: no ]))))))) (;B[pd]CR[pd]C[Gaijin [17k\]: seemes b kakari too distant in both corners Blackstorm [9k\]: no Dita [5k\]: hehe Forou [?\]: no :) Kevintju [-\]: lol cynewulf [9k?\]: horrible :) Forou [?\]: it is good :) Codexus [15k\]: the only I'm sure is right :) Ciovo [8k?\]: looks great! Myshkin [18k\]: heh Worthless [6k?\]: I could say it is :) troll [2k\]: Q16, good feeling :p Blackstorm [9k\]: mhhhh i think black don t want a hard pincer ] ;W[dp]CR[dp] ;B[pq]CR[pq]C[Blackstorm [9k\]: < thinking ] ;W[dc]CR[dc]C[Forou [?\]: rank of players? ] (;B[df]CR[df]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: stop napster [?\]: no Vanya [11k\]: it depends Forou [?\]: look s a little weird.. but doesnt have to be bad? Scribe [-\]: d14 is a light move, means that black wants to play fast ] ;W[ce]CR[ce]C[Karamfil [15k\]: this is wrong Gaijin [17k\]: ok, but think top left needs follow up Karamfil [15k\]: other side better SitaRam [2d?\]: f3 looks better agui [7k?\]: ;) Shikasta [15k\]: doesnt work well with d14 Ogakusei [14k\]: F3 better SitaRam [2d?\]: f3 Karamfil [15k\]: F3 Quinn [9k\]: f3 Karamfil [15k\]: yeah Vanya [11k\]: C14 quatschi [12k\]: Q9 napster [?\]: M4 Blackstorm [9k\]: i would response on the joseki upper left because c 15 makes a big weak ness Karamfil [15k\]: than C14 sajmon [11k\]: D10 is joseki, but I think it is a bit small Quinn [9k\]: nadare ] (;B[cn]CR[cn]LB[df:A]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: wrong Vanya [11k\]: seem not good napster [?\]: yes Shikasta [15k\]: yes SitaRam [2d?\]: wrong side Codexus [15k\]: it feels like wrong direction to me bigfish [?\]: good Dita [5k\]: seems ok because D14 = light capt [2k?\]: seems ok Damir [8k\]: D10 attacks both vblack stones bigfish [?\]: nah agui [7k?\]: no Myshkin [18k\]: no Blackstorm [9k\]: mmhhhh Scribe [-\]: onadare not nadare Gaijin [17k\]: was hoping to make side I guess ] (;W[dj]CR[dj]C[Forou [?\]: oh no think! Scribe [-\]: Thirty move shown, then locate the mistakes Scribe [-\]: c6 is a proper approach, d14 is light Blackstorm [9k\]: c 15 produve a weak point or ? troll [2k\]: no agui [7k?\]: yes Blackstorm [9k\]: no Scribe [-\]: Mingjiu does not like this pincer for white, black will develop and attempt to enclose Scribe [-\]: better to pincer at d9 than to play d10 Gaijin [17k\]: how to deal with the fourth line in lower side? ] (;B[fp]CR[fp]LB[dn:A][fo:B]C[Vanya [11k\]: wrong joseki bigfish [?\]: d6 agui [7k?\]: F5 Worthless [6k?\]: Atttach, d6? Vanya [11k\]: what about F4? bigfish [?\]: d7 Janus37 [6k\]: d6 or f5 xDarigaaz [8k\]: D6 is joseki Unesential [21k?\]: f5 ? troll [2k\]: because of D10, I would lean with F5 to attack C6 Quinn [9k\]: and why nor e5? Unesential [21k?\]: is it just territory or another eason? ] (;W[eo]CR[eo]C[bigfish [?\]: no SitaRam [2d?\]: no Blackstorm [9k\]: 6 d agui [7k?\]: no , F5 Forou [?\]: looks like an attemtp to split black in two SitaRam [2d?\]: d6 Scribe [-\]: not joseki Quinn [9k\]: why not? Vanya [11k\]: what about F4, is it good or bad? Forou [?\]: continue ] ;B[cq]CR[cq]C[Quinn [9k\]: how can b punish? Blackstorm [9k\]: c 15 produce a weak point or ? Vanya [11k\]: what about F4? Is it a mistake? Guardian [19k\]: b ] (;W[cp]CR[cp]C[Quinn [9k\]: b4? Scribe [-\]: c3 punishes e5 Quinn [9k\]: c4? Ciovo [8k?\]: C4 Quinn [9k\]: i mean Javaness [4k\]: C4 looks better Blackstorm [9k\]: c4 ] ;B[dq]CR[dq]C[Gaijin [17k\]: that is better threat against c6 Dita [5k\]: D7 Vanya [11k\]: F5 Scribe [-\]: how can white make nice shape here Hoshiman [7k\]: why not f6 ] (;W[ep]CR[ep]C[Gaijin [17k\]: on question : how to follow that up? troll [2k\]: ok ] ;B[eq]CR[eq] ;W[fo]CR[fo]C[Shikasta [15k\]: what if w f5 ] ;B[gp]CR[gp]LB[cl:A]C[Dita [5k\]: noooo agui [7k?\]: no Vanya [11k\]: no Forou [?\]: n.. Javaness [4k\]: white made an empty triangle SitaRam [2d?\]: noo Blackstorm [9k\]: mmhh yeah bigfish [?\]: yup Quinn [9k\]: ah ok fu [15k?\]: looks like bad shape for w Scribe [-\]: Black c8 is good play, easy to live Scribe [-\]: when white makes e5 mistake, must play b3 in place of e4 Scribe [-\]: e4 empty triangle Vanya [11k\]: D7 ? SitaRam [2d?\]: ;-) Gaijin [17k\]: thankyou move ] (;W[de]CR[de]LB[cl:B][cn:A] (;B[em]CR[em]C[Worthless [6k?\]: Wow. Scribe [-\]: invites severe attack at c8 ] (;W[go]CR[go] ;B[hp]CR[hp] (;W[gm]CR[gm] (;B[ek]CR[ek]C[Scribe [-\]: white g5 is good push ] ;W[ej]CR[ej] ;B[fk]CR[fk] ;W[cl]CR[cl]C[Vanya [11k\]: at last Ciovo [8k?\]: now you prefer white or black? SitaRam [2d?\]: no mpu [-\]: yes agui [7k?\]: no Forou [?\]: white!! bigfish [?\]: who won Dita [5k\]: lol troll [2k\]: what instead of E5? suducodu [?\]: clear Dita [5k\]: ok Forou [?\]: okay ^_^ SILD [5k\]: ok Kanako16 [25k\]: yay! Kevintju [-\]: ok Ciovo [8k?\]: thank you Shikasta [15k\]: thxs grossebaf [4k?\]: thx Codexus [15k\]: homework \\o/ ] ;B[ck]CR[ck] ;W[dk]CR[dk] ;B[dl]CR[dl] ;W[dm]CR[dm] ;B[el]CR[el] ;W[cm]LB[dc:4][pd:1][ce:6][de:18][df:5][dj:8][ej:24][ck:27][dk:28][ek:23][fk:25][cl:26][dl:29][el:31][cm:32][dm:30][em:19][gm:22][cn:7][eo:10][fo:16][go:20][cp:12][dp:2][ep:14][fp:9][gp:17][hp:21][cq:11][dq:13][eq:15][pq:3]C[fu [15k?\]: E4 mistake... ? Quinn [9k\]: e4 strange, d15 touches weak stone Gaijin [17k\]: to star d14 doesnt accomplish much Blackstorm [9k\]: e 4 mpu [-\]: no Blackstorm [9k\]: but is d 14 normal ? Scribe [-\]: d14 is group touch stone....punishes Quinn [9k\]: 14 & 18 seem bad gertzu [-\]: 9 SitaRam [2d?\]: 14 and 19 very strange Karamfil [15k\]: 6 seems bad Unesential [21k?\]: 18 is odd Blackstorm [9k\]: e 4 desrtoys aji Gaijin [17k\]: 14 better at f4? Myshkin [18k\]: c3 hurts c6 troll [2k\]: I dislike 5,8,10 Dita [5k\]: I would play move 18 at 30 Vanya [11k\]: D10 seems not good, 8th move Blackstorm [9k\]: 5 at 6 or ? Blackstorm [9k\]: white e 4 Blackstorm [9k\]: one troll [2k\]: among others kaila [5k?\]: b makes more mistake than w Repacse [12k\]: 7 is the wrong kakari Damir [8k\]: i dislike 7 troll [2k\]: yes Shikasta [15k\]: 7 Scribe [-\]: White is ahead at this point Unesential [21k?\]: you saying 7 should be from the bottom instead? ]) (;B[cl]CR[cl] ;W[fk]CR[fk] ;B[bj]CR[bj])) (;W[cl]CR[cl]C[Scribe [-\]: white attacks black Scribe [-\]: bad shape for black now ])) (;W[cl]CR[cl]C[Scribe [-\]: e7 bad move ])) (;B[cl]CR[cl]C[Scribe [-\]: makes base Scribe [-\]: hard to fix white's shape after two mistakes ] (;W[el]CR[el] ;B[bj]CR[bj]C[Scribe [-\]: proper move is c8 for black SitaRam [2d?\]: b gets a base ]) (;W[ck]CR[ck] ;B[el]CR[el])) (;B[el]CR[el]C[Gaijin [17k\]: cut ]) (;B[go]CR[go])) (;W[dm]CR[dm]C[Kerrick [16k?\]: b is on 4th line :-( ] ;B[bp]CR[bp]C[Scribe [-\]: Black gains more than White ] ;W[bo]CR[bo] ;B[bq]CR[bq]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: pushing from behind ] ;W[co]CR[co]C[Scribe [-\]: White needs to play d7 Worthless [6k?\]: W is saturated... ]) (;W[nc]CR[nc] ;B[lc]CR[lc] ;W[qf]CR[qf] ;B[pf]CR[pf] ;W[pg]CR[pg] ;B[of]CR[of] ;W[qc]CR[qc]C[Scribe [-\]: e5 is a handicap joseki at most ] (;B[qe]CR[qe]C[Dita [5k\]: R15 ]) (;B[pc]CR[pc] ;W[qd]CR[qd] ;B[qe]CR[qe] ;W[re]CR[re] ;B[pe]CR[pe] ;W[rg]CR[rg] ;B[og]CR[og] ;W[ph]CR[ph]TR[nc]C[Javaness [4k\]: too soft Scribe [-\]: handicap joseki Quinn [9k\]: overconcentrated Scribe [-\]: give up a little extra to get safe easier ])) (;W[cl]CR[cl] (;B[de]CR[de]C[Scribe [-\]: c8 key point ] ;W[dd]CR[dd] ;B[cf]CR[cf] ;W[be]CR[be] ;B[ge]CR[ge]) (;B[bp]CR[bp] ;W[bo]CR[bo] ;B[bq]CR[bq]) (;B[go]CR[go])) (;W[hn]CR[hn]C[Scribe [-\]: perhaps this is the move for white ]) (;W[cm]CR[cm])) (;W[dm]CR[dm] ;B[ep]CR[ep]C[Javaness [4k\]: i hate it ] ;W[do]CR[do] ;B[bp]CR[bp] ;W[bo]CR[bo] ;B[bq]CR[bq]C[Dita [5k\]: aha Dita [5k\]: no SitaRam [2d?\]: no Blackstorm [9k\]: buth no ]) (;W[bq]CR[bq]C[SILD [5k\]: B3 ] ;B[ep]CR[ep] ;W[dn]CR[dn]C[Dita [5k\]: ahh ] ;B[fo]CR[fo] ;W[dm]CR[dm]C[Scribe [-\]: proper move is b3 in place of e4 Forou [?\]: nice Kacpergo [16k\]: why not f6 but d7? ])) (;W[dq]CR[dq] ;B[cp]CR[cp] ;W[dm]CR[dm] ;B[cm]CR[cm] ;W[dl]CR[dl])) (;W[dn]CR[dn] ;B[dm]CR[dm] ;W[en]CR[en] ;B[co]CR[co]C[Quinn [9k\]: not* ] ;W[ep]CR[ep] ;B[bq]CR[bq]C[Unesential [21k?\]: it just looks odd ] ;W[em]CR[em] ;B[dl]CR[dl] ;W[el]CR[el]LB[ce:B][df:A]C[Unesential [21k?\]: easy cut bigfish [?\]: bad fo W agui [7k?\]: good for white Unesential [21k?\]: but then, i'm a bad player so don't listen to me lol Ciovo [8k?\]: quite sad for white, i think... Vanya [11k\]: seems good for W Scribe [-\]: joseki Gaijin [17k\]: f4 in trouble Blackstorm [9k\]: for whit not so nice or ~ ~ Worthless [6k?\]: Fine for both... SitaRam [2d?\]: hm agui [7k?\]: for white Forou [?\]: good for black Codexus [15k\]: i prefer black bigfish [?\]: black Quinn [9k\]: like b Janus37 [6k\]: d10 well placed Dita [5k\]: I dont know Gaijin [17k\]: white has more potential Javaness [4k\]: white's wall is poor SitaRam [2d?\]: good for b agui [7k?\]: good influence Blackstorm [9k\]: right side is small Shikasta [15k\]: i like b Blackstorm [9k\]: left Forou [?\]: lOl Blackstorm [9k\]: left side is small Forou [?\]: right.. white is connected all the way.. Quinn [9k\]: f4 doesnt look good, but black has sente Forou [?\]: hmmm bigfish [?\]: you er thicknesswhites cou Scribe [-\]: result is good for white Kacpergo [16k\]: white can attack Forou [?\]: I am changing mind ^_^ Scribe [-\]: Mingjiu likes White Scribe [-\]: d14 stone is misplaced bigfish [?\]: who won Unesential [21k?\]: acn someone tell me the advantage of position b for black? Scribe [-\]: d14 should be at c15 Unesential [21k?\]: instead of a? agui [7k?\]: yes thanks Pilsun [12k\]: is white f5 joseki better? Blackstorm [9k\]: yeah ])) (;B[en]CR[en] ;W[fp]CR[fp] ;B[cf]CR[cf]C[Dita [5k\]: G16 at F10? ] ;W[de]CR[de] ;B[ef]CR[ef] ;W[ee]CR[ee]C[Blackstorm [9k\]: agree ] ;B[ff]CR[ff]C[SitaRam [2d?\]: always ] ;W[gd]CR[gd]C[Unesential [21k?\]: Ican white try to wall down instead? Worthless [6k?\]: Hardly... Tanada [9k\]: yes Karamfil [15k\]: O.o ] ;B[fj]CR[fj]TR[dj]C[Dita [5k\]: no SitaRam [2d?\]: no Blackstorm [9k\]: no Codexus [15k\]: no :) Myshkin [18k\]: no agui [7k?\]: noooo Dita [5k\]: is G16 needed? ])) (;W[fq]CR[fq]C[sajmon [11k\]: C14 ]) (;W[dk]CR[dk])) (;B[fq]CR[fq]C[bigfish [?\]: I wouldn't playd d14 FRaiSoo [9k\]: