(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[NZ]SZ[19]KM[7.00]TM[3600]OT[25/600 Canadian]
DT[2006-12-03]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[babukun [1d\]: hello
Repacse [4k?\]: hello
dougghost [3k\]: guu moring
AndreAy [2k\]: Guten Abend.
sestir [3d\]: hi
Javaness [1d\]: Hello mr mingjiu
davide12 [5k\]: yes
babukun [1d\]: yes
Chaotic [-\]: howdy:)
dougghost [3k\]: yes
hongSu: hello mingjju sama
babukun [1d\]: sure
]
(;B[qp]
;W[dd]
;B[cp]
;W[qd]
;B[cf]
(;W[ep])
(;W[ch]
;B[ef]
;W[fd]
;B[di]
;W[ci]
;B[dj]
;W[dh]
;B[eh]
;W[cj]
;B[dk]
;W[cl]
;B[em]
;W[cm]
;B[ep]))
(;B[pp]
;W[dd]
;B[cp]
;W[qd]C[ThomA [9k\]: hello
]
;B[cf]
(;W[ch]
;B[ef]
;W[fd]
;B[di]
(;W[ce]
;B[ci]
;W[bf]
(;B[ip])
(;B[cg]
;W[bg]
;B[bh]
;W[fp]))
(;W[ci]
;B[dj]
;W[dh]
;B[eh]
;W[cj]
;B[dk]
;W[cl]
;B[em]
;W[cm]
;B[ep]))
(;W[ep]
;B[hp]C[julot [12k\]: yes
]
(;W[en]C[Chaotic [-\]: you change your mind too quick:P
AndreAy [2k\]: oh, sound
]
(;B[cm]C[Javaness [1d\]: the teacher is talking
]
;W[el]
;B[dk]C[babukun [1d\]: black better?
etl3 [?\]: I like black
yithril [2k\]: good for b
celotaped [5k\]: good for b
yui4eva [?\]: you cant listen to the teacher??
etl3 [?\]: Andreay, there is audio.
Javaness [1d\]: turn your audio on
Chaotic [-\]: andre, turn sound on?
]
;W[jq]TR[cf]C[celotaped [5k\]: good for w
])
(;B[cn]
;W[el]
;B[cl]C[yui4eva [?\]: im lost..
Yezatane [9k\]: join the club
AndreAy [2k\]: Will there be any comments from the teacher or just does and undoes of moves?
celotaped [5k\]: me :)
Jadeite [?\]: lol
etl3 [?\]: Yes
Jadeite [?\]: yes
Chaotic [-\]: yes we hear you
Javaness [1d\]: yes 
octopus [1d\]: yes
TenukiBoy [1k?\]: seems clear Mingjiu
tibra [5k\]: yes
]))
(;W[dm]C[AndreAy [2k\]: I hear now too
]
;B[eo]
;W[fo]
;B[en]
;W[dp]
;B[cn]C[Scribe [-\]: first c3
]
(;W[cq]
(;B[co]C[Scribe [-\]: white should hane at c3 first then play f6
Scribe [-\]: f6 wrong !
]
;W[fn]C[RocheL [-\]: javaness 1D oO
]
(;B[em]
;W[dr]C[Javaness [1d\]: looks like an even result
]
(;B[ci]C[Chaotic [-\]: oh i have a question about that joseki later if there's joseki questions again:)
]
;W[dj]C[Scribe [-\]: also possible to play at d11 in place of c11
])
(;B[di]C[etl3 [?\]: I like black here
GonKu [1d\]: when is sometime?
Scribe [-\]: White has a good point of d10 if black c11
]))
(;B[fp]
;W[gp]
;B[fq]
;W[gq]C[Scribe [-\]: bad result for black
]
;B[er]
;W[dr]
;B[gr]
;W[hq]
;B[hr]
;W[iq]
;B[ir]
;W[jq]
;B[kr]
;W[em]
;B[bl]
;W[br]C[Javaness [1d\]: I made 1D by watching Ing lectures
Scribe [-\]: many second line moves are required to attack the white corner
etl3 [?\]: this is good for white
]))
(;B[bp]
;W[fq]LB[em:B][fn:A]C[Scribe [-\]: if white f6 first, black should descend at b4 in place of c5 after white hane of c3
]
;B[bq]C[Scribe [-\]: f6/e7 hurts the white stone at d7
]
;W[cr]C[Scribe [-\]: after white f3 white does not want to exchane f6 for e7
]
(;B[dj])
(;B[bl])
(;B[ci]
;W[fn]
;B[em]LB[dm:A]C[icebucket [11k?\]: B is good
etl3 [?\]: good exchange for white
etl3 [?\]: err black
Javaness [1d\]: black is happy
])))
(;W[fn]C[fab [-\]: can we see again the position when black cut ?
shuuin [6k\]: understood
]
;B[em]C[gogogo07 [2k\]: i think b can cut if ladder works
]
;W[cq]
(;B[bp]LB[co:A]C[shuuin [6k\]: no
agui [4k\]: no
ThomA [9k\]: no
Principe [-\]: no
])
(;B[co]
;W[dr]LB[fm:A]C[yithril [2k\]: ur mixing up positions
yithril [2k\]: white d 7 cant come out so easily
yui4eva [?\]: why too close?
yui4eva [?\]: icic...
xevad [4k\]: this is my favorite joseki
]
(;B[di]C[Chaotic [-\]: i have one, though you covered my initial question first:)
etl3 [?\]: There is White C12
hansb [1k\]: one space?
yui4eva [?\]: yea 1 space ...
babukun [1d\]: c12 is a cut for w when black hoshi
etl3 [?\]: as a weakness when you play Black D10
Principe [-\]: lol
icaros [5k\]: d11 support c14
Scribe [-\]: d11 is the proper move
etl3 [?\]: white can attack black at c12
])
(;B[ci])
(;B[dj]LB[dj:C][fn:A][cq:B]C[Scribe [-\]: game move
shuuin [6k\]: a for black is good
babukun [1d\]: can black goes f7 before d11?
celotaped [5k\]: yes
AndreAy [2k\]: yes
agui [4k\]: yes
Principe [-\]: ys
etl3 [?\]: yes
julot [12k\]: yes
ThomA [9k\]: yes
etl3 [?\]: Haha
etl3 [?\]: Which mistake is worse?
icebucket [11k?\]: B
Principe [-\]: c
icebucket [11k?\]: Black mistake bigger
Repacse [4k?\]: white can still invade at c12 
]
(;W[fm]TR[hp]C[NearlyNrml [4k\]: you might learn more by listening
]
;B[el]TR[dj])
(;W[fd]C[etl3 [?\]: no
Scribe [-\]: d10 is too close.  d11 is correcdt
]
;B[oc]
;W[mc]
;B[pe]C[quietman [6k\]: too hight you said?
quietman [6k\]: f16
Scribe [-\]: not a moyo game, white f16 is misplaced. should be at f17
quietman [6k\]: ic
]
(;W[pd])
(;W[qe]
;B[pf]
;W[qg]
;B[qc]C[shuuin [6k\]: o14 best
Scribe [-\]: f16 is wrong, f17 is correcdt
]
(;W[qf]C[xevad [4k\]: nothing wrong with this way for white right?
Scribe [-\]: joseki
Scribe [-\]: also joseki
]
;B[pc]
(;W[qj])
(;W[nf]))
(;W[qn])
(;W[pg]C[nodog [7k\]: NearlyNrml: Scribe is just typing what the teacher says.
]
(;B[pc]
;W[nf]LB[qf:B][pg:A]C[Scribe [-\]: q17 is now no good for black
Scribe [-\]: q17 only when white plays r14
])
(;B[pd]LB[pg:A][qn:B]C[AndreAy [2k\]: s17
Principe [-\]: ?
quietman [6k\]: im very glad someone can write them for us
]
(;W[qn]LB[qf:B][pg:A]C[Scribe [-\]: q13 forces black to play at q16
shuuin [6k\]: good for black
woll [5k?\]: Scribe is a dan in writing ;) 
quietman [6k\]: some of us miss some of the teacher comments
AndreAy [2k\]: yes
icebucket [11k?\]: pay attention
NearlyNrml [4k\]: ic
agui [4k\]: yes thanks
nodog [7k\]: yes
octopus [1d\]: yes
JedyFly [4k\]: yes
shuuin [6k\]: clear
]
(;B[pk]
;W[on]
;B[np]
(;W[rh])
(;W[qi]
;B[]
(;W[rc])
(;W[qf]
;B[rc])))
(;B[qf]C[Principe [-\]: bad*
]
;W[rf]C[yui4eva [?\]: b looks better :s
]
(;B[rg]
;W[rh]
;B[re]
;W[sg]
;B[rd]LB[qc:A]TR[qd][qe]C[etl3 [?\]: good for white
AndreAy [2k\]: b took unimportant stones
Scribe [-\]: fine for white
Principe [-\]: w gets ente
icebucket [11k?\]: Q9
xevad [4k\]: black get corner but only helps white
Scribe [-\]: r17 looks to be a wasted move, via tewari
])
(;B[re]
;W[rd]
;B[rg]
;W[se]
;B[rh]
;W[rc]C[etl3 [?\]: no
Scribe [-\]: white lives
NearlyNrml [4k\]: scribe...what's yuor strength, i'm just curious
Principe [-\]: nad for w
])))
(;W[qf]C[Scribe [-\]: unknown
]
;B[rc]C[etl3 [?\]: good exchange for black
yui4eva [?\]: aggresive...
Javaness [1d\]: black is happy
xevad [4k\]: heavy
Scribe [-\]: black alive in the corner
shuuin [6k\]: o13
Javaness [1d\]: white can only extend a little
Scribe [-\]: white still needs support on the right side for the five stones
Scribe [-\]: r14 s17 exchange damages white
]
(;W[ql])
(;W[qn]
;B[pk]TR[qf][pg][qg]C[Javaness [1d\]: no
etl3 [?\]: no
Principe [-\]: no
])
(;W[qk]LB[cc:G][hc:E][kc:H][pg:A][qg:B][qk:C][qm:D][kp:F]C[agui [4k\]: no
AndreAy [2k\]: no
Jadeite [?\]: no
etl3 [?\]: no
Phlebas [7k\]: nope
babukun [1d\]: no
ThomA [9k\]: no
Scribe [-\]: white supports the five stones as needed, but white is not efficient
Truc [4k?\]: r6
babukun [1d\]: h17
etl3 [?\]: R6
yithril [2k\]: r7?
Scribe [-\]: WHERE is the big move ?
seidelin [2k\]: R6
agui [4k\]: R7
octopus [1d\]: h17
Jadeite [?\]: r7 
quietman [6k\]: i like r7
Phlebas [7k\]: R7
hansb [1k\]: H17
Phlebas [7k\]: yes
blitzme [1k\]: l 4
tablescrap [?\]: l4
Repacse [4k?\]: c17 
shuuin [6k\]: n14
Chaotic [-\]: h17, f7, r6
NearlyNrml [4k\]: seems the lower side is more important for b
quietman [6k\]: all look good now
Javaness [1d\]: R7 for me
icebucket [11k?\]: LOL
Chaotic [-\]: hehe
etl3 [?\]: R6 better to me
quietman [6k\]: then r7 it is
Principe [-\]: lmao
hansb [1k\]: chaotic he?!
Chaotic [-\]: i want to play all moves at the same time:)
MattHunt [10k?\]: I'd got for D :)
Gustavo [14k\]: *votes for f*
kkamil [5k\]: o3
Javaness [1d\]: 3 moves are better then one ^,^;;
NearlyNrml [4k\]: l4
Gustavo [14k\]: l*
Repacse [4k?\]: o4 
julot [12k\]: L4
AndreAy [2k\]: l4
Phlebas [7k\]: r7
NearlyNrml [4k\]: white can't develop much on the right
icebucket [11k?\]: L17 probably
NearlyNrml [4k\]: l17
xevad [4k\]: I would play R6
davide12 [5k\]: e14?
ricketrack [4k\]: k17
Chaotic [-\]: exactly javaness:P
Phlebas [7k\]: r6 is softer
AndreAy [2k\]: l17 is too near b strength
shuuin [6k\]: f is the best
agui [4k\]: D
quietman [6k\]: which???
TenukiBoy [1k?\]: you might add B16 as big move ;-)
NearlyNrml [4k\]: it's b's move andre
agui [4k\]: aha I see, thanks
Scribe [-\]: L4 is wrong idea
xevad [4k\]: makes sense
babukun [1d\]: who won this game? black or white?
]
(;B[qm]TR[pg][qg][qk][qm]C[babukun [1d\]: san san now? for w
Repacse [4k?\]: r7 does not really attack
tiger [3d\]: corner open, not much effect on w
etl3 [?\]: white can tenuki?
NearlyNrml [4k\]: lower area is too open for white invasion?
Scribe [-\]: white right side is very strong
celotaped [5k\]: too close
])
(;B[qn]C[xevad [4k\]: =)
Scribe [-\]: why is black playing so close to whites strenght with r7 ?
gaetano [7k\]: g e h are much more sente...
Scribe [-\]: on the right side r6 is better than r7
])
(;B[kp])
(;B[nq]LB[fp:B][hq:A]TR[hp]C[Scribe [-\]: the proper moves on the bottom at o3 and n3.  o3 is better
gaetano [7k\]: big but gote...
Scribe [-\]: h4 is not very weak
ThomA [9k\]: not anymore
]
;W[]TR[hp]C[Scribe [-\]: g3 is also sente
Principe [-\]: no
]
(;B[hq])
(;B[gq]C[Scribe [-\]: h3 is almost sente for black threatening to cut at f4
])
(;B[hn]))
(;B[mq])
(;B[kc]TR[mc][pg]C[hansb [1k\]: too small
TenukiBoy [1k?\]: too close
etl3 [?\]: This is too close
AndreAy [2k\]: no
agui [4k\]: no too close
Scribe [-\]: h17 squeezes n17 but its too small and gives white excellent followup
shuuin [6k\]: l15 better to attack
]
;W[ic]C[icebucket [11k?\]: ah make sense now thx
Scribe [-\]: j17 is the excellent followup
Creslin [6k\]: Corner bigger then C12 invasion?
]
;B[ld]
;W[bd]C[Scribe [-\]: h17/L17 combo make the top larger than playing L17 alone
etl3 [?\]: yes
AndreAy [2k\]: yes
agui [4k\]: yes
octopus [1d\]: yes
icebucket [11k?\]: yes
babukun [1d\]: yep
JedyFly [4k\]: yes
Jadeite [?\]: clear
julot [12k\]: yes*
Scribe [-\]: white got both h17 and b16
shuuin [6k\]: b16 too bad
])
(;B[cc]
;W[cd]
;B[bd]
;W[be]LB[ic:A]C[Principe [-\]: scribe stop repeating wat he says makes u look wise :)
]
;B[bc]
;W[ce]
;B[eb]
;W[ch]C[Scribe [-\]: c17 damages the outside black stones
Scribe [-\]: d10 is now strangely placed
celotaped [5k\]: hurt
Chaotic [-\]: scribe is helping
Jadeite [?\]: Principe, it's to save the comments in the file ;-)
hideyoshi [11k?\]: its for later review Principe so don't disturb
])
(;B[hc]TR[kc][dd][fd][cf][dj]C[hideyoshi [11k?\]: ^^
Principe [-\]: ah ^_^
quietman [6k\]: scribe is fine
Jadeite [?\]: split two weak groups
etl3 [?\]: yes
AndreAy [2k\]: yes
agui [4k\]: yes
Jadeite [?\]: agree
Principe [-\]: indeed
babukun [1d\]: sure =P
ThomA [9k\]: yes
Chaotic [-\]: yup
JedyFly [4k\]: yes
shuuin [6k\]: agree ....
Gustavo [14k\]: sim
etl3 [?\]: for what?
shuuin [6k\]: right
etl3 [?\]: for white?
Repacse [4k?\]: k17 
seidelin [2k\]: G17
shuuin [6k\]: of course
xevad [4k\]: have to run
TenukiBoy [1k?\]: B16 ?
Principe [-\]: no
icebucket [11k?\]: no
MattHunt [10k?\]: no, thank you
agui [4k\]: no
ThomA [9k\]: no
etl3 [?\]: nope
Scribe [-\]: who won does not matter, still many opportunites for errors later
Principe [-\]: ty
Scribe [-\]: two 5 d players
babukun [1d\]: ok, thanks
Chaotic [-\]: oh
TenukiBoy [1k?\]: no, that's very clear, thanks Mingjiu !
Repacse [4k?\]: c14 better then p17 ?
agui [4k\]: ohh
Chaotic [-\]: i guessed around 3k hehe:)
icebucket [11k?\]: homework time.  :)
]
(;W[jc]C[Principe [-\]: a real scribe
]
;B[he]TR[jc][mc][dd][fd]C[julot [12k\]: yes
gaetano [7k\]: me too!
Scribe [-\]: h17 is what Mingjiu likes
shuuin [6k\]: h17 looks good
Scribe [-\]: splits white top side into two weak groups
etl3 [?\]: ahhh
Javaness [1d\]: they are sad
baitem [6k\]: no shape
Truc [4k?\]: nice
celotaped [5k\]: floating
xevad [4k\]: when open from 2 ways pointless to block
]
(;W[ch]C[shuuin [6k\]: makes few territory
gaetano [7k\]: white is entering a world of pain...
etl3 [?\]: no
Javaness [1d\]: no
Principe [-\]: no
Scribe [-\]: c14, h17 and d16 f16 are basic pattern
gaetano [7k\]: white is lebowsky!
JedyFly [4k\]: no
])
(;W[]
;B[kd])
(;W[bd]C[Scribe [-\]: h17 also give black followup of L17 if white helps the two d16/f16 stones
]
;B[kd]
;W[kc]
;B[ld]))
(;W[nq]C[xevad [4k\]: over concentrated and low
]
;B[lq]
;W[qq]
;B[pq]
;W[qp]
;B[po]
;W[pr]
;B[or]
;W[qr]
;B[oq]
;W[qn]TR[qk][qn]C[Chaotic [-\]: too low
Scribe [-\]: black can handle white o3 easily
baitem [6k\]: w low
Jadeite [?\]: low
agui [4k\]: redundant
])
(;W[ch]C[galaad33 [19k\]: L17?
])
(;W[bd]
;B[kc]))))))
(;W[pd]C[Scribe [-\]: gives black the corner ?
]
;B[od]
;W[pc]
;B[qf]
;W[rf]
;B[pb]
;W[qb]
;B[rc]C[etl3 [?\]: oooh
])))
(;W[fc]))
(;B[fm]
;W[ho]C[Scribe [-\]: d10 is too close to black position
]
;B[dj])
(;B[cj]
(;W[cg])
(;W[ch]
;B[ck]))
(;B[ck]))))))
(;B[qb]
;W[pb]
;B[rd]
;W[pd]
;B[se]
;W[qe]C[Scribe [-\]: Homework !
]
;AW[ob][pf][rf][sf]AB[ra]C[babukun [1d\]: r17
]
;B[]LB[sb:C][qc:B][re:A]C[Principe [-\]: hmm
xevad [4k\]: 3
etl3 [?\]: 5
Scribe [-\]: How many ways to kill ?
seidelin [2k\]: 3
gaetano [7k\]: 3
gaetano [7k\]: 1000
babukun [1d\]: 3
TenukiBoy [1k?\]: pass kills ? :-p
xushibagua [7k\]: 3? s15 s17 r 18?
Principe [-\]: 4
etl3 [?\]: S15, T16, R17, T18, S17
babukun [1d\]: t17 seems work, but it is ko i think
Jadeite [?\]: 3
Truc [4k?\]: t16?
hansb [1k\]: T16
Chaotic [-\]: at same time, ninja tesuji
Chaotic [-\]: difficult on go server though:(
babukun [1d\]: t17 doent works?
]
(;W[re]
(;B[sd]
;W[rc])
(;B[sb]
(;W[rc])
(;W[sd]
;B[rc])))
(;W[qc]
;B[rc]
;W[sb])
(;W[qd]C[etl3 [?\]: doesn't work
gaetano [7k\]: no
Principe [-\]: no
gaetano [7k\]: t18
etl3 [?\]: T18
Javaness [1d\]: ^,^;;
]
(;B[sb]
;W[rc]
;B[qc]C[JedyFly [4k\]: lol
Starke [11k\]: =)
]
;W[re]C[gaetano [7k\]: :P
etl3 [?\]: oh...
babukun [1d\]: =p
xevad [4k\]: lol
])
(;B[qc]
(;W[sb]
;B[sc]
;W[re]
;B[rb]C[Scribe [-\]: two step ko
etl3 [?\]: ahhh
Principe [-\]: k
])
(;W[re]
;B[sc])))
(;W[rc]
;B[qc]C[etl3 [?\]: works
Principe [-\]: yss
AndreAy [2k\]: sagari
agui [4k\]: ko
Kamisama [7k\]: t18?
]
(;W[sb]
;B[sc]C[etl3 [?\]: T18
JedyFly [4k\]: t17
])
(;W[sc]
;B[sb]
;W[re]
;B[rb]C[JedyFly [4k\]: ops
etl3 [?\]: ko..
JedyFly [4k\]: =P
Principe [-\]: oh
Principe [-\]: :(
])
(;W[re]
;B[sc]))
(;W[rb]
;B[sb])
(;W[sc]
;B[sb]C[Chaotic [-\]: ko
]
;W[rc]
;B[qc]C[etl3 [?\]: I see...
])
(;W[sb]
;B[sc]
;W[qc])
(;W[sd]
;B[sc]
(;W[qc]
;B[rc])
(;W[re]C[Principe [-\]: oh ;(
JedyFly [4k\]: ol
etl3 [?\]: ah...
]
;B[sb]C[JedyFly [4k\]: =P
])
(;W[sb]
;B[qc]C[Principe [-\]: chaotic can play 3 moves :)
]))
(;W[ba]C[Chaotic [-\]: its ko
babukun [1d\]: doesnt*
]
;B[cb]
;W[bb]
;B[db]
;W[cc]
;B[dc]
;W[cd]
;B[dd]
;W[ce]
;B[de]
;W[bf]
;B[cf]
;W[bi]
;B[cg]
;W[di]
;B[bg]TR[bi][di]C[Scribe [-\]: New Homework
Scribe [-\]: Xiexie Mingjiu
Principe [-\]: ty
guojuan [5p\]: I am here :)
Chaotic [-\]: thank you
Scribe [-\]: Thanks to the Ing Goe Foundation
xushibagua [7k\]: xiexie
Winters [4k\]: thanks
ThomA [9k\]: thank you
Phlebas [7k\]: thanks
MattHunt [10k?\]: ty
Starke [11k\]: Thanks
agui [4k\]: Thank you very much
babukun [1d\]: Gracias
octopus [1d\]: thank you, bye
TenukiBoy [1k?\]: thanks a lot !
CLB [8k\]: thanks
blitzme [1k\]: hx
Jadeite [?\]: thank you 
JedyFly [4k\]: Thanks
nodog [7k\]: Thank you very much!
Javaness [1d\]: Thank you mingjiiu
flavien [9k\]: thanks
Principe [-\]: thx
saodiseng [4d\]: thank you
Repacse [4k?\]: thanks very much
kobuz [-\]: thanks
etl3 [?\]: thank you
seidelin [2k\]: thanks
AndreAy [2k\]: Thanks for teaching :-)
Javaness [1d\]: Thank you ing foundation and scribe
hariko [2d\]: thx mingjiu & scribe & ing
Seppie: ^_^
])))