(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2] RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[1800]OT[5x30 byo-yomi] DT[2007-04-29]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[justin27 [-\]: hello Tibbsy [5k\]: hi ! agui [4k\]: Hello lupis [3k\]: good evening gmachaut: hi Redjoker [1d\]: hi pelister [13k\]: hi turkuaz [11k\]: hi Redjoker [1d\]: is this lesson with sound? rider [?\]: I hope not. guojuan [5p\]: yes gotobigo [3k\]: hi ScarletFox [14k\]: he has a mic yes rider [?\]: :( guojuan [5p\]: we will use audio A1Steak [5k?\]: hi Redjoker [1d\]: hoi BadMove [-\]: hello A1Steak [5k?\]: yes agui [4k\]: yes ScarletFox [14k\]: hello :-). Yes pelister [13k\]: yes justin27 [-\]: yes murky: Hello thoel [?\]: yes, good morning AA101: yes Scribe [-\]: Nihao Mingjiu Laoshi Nirvanaki [14k?\]: hi woos [4k\]: hello. yes clear and loud Tarkam [2k?\]: game A1Steak [5k?\]: game thoel [?\]: game review yithril [1d\]: game ] (;B[dp] ;W[pd] ;B[qp]C[icebucket [-\]: mingjiu[7p\]: ok game review first ] ;W[cd] ;B[qf] ;W[nc] ;B[pj] ;W[np] ;B[oq]C[Scribe [-\]: kobayashi style fuseki A1Steak [5k?\]: o3 yithril [1d\]: k3? Redjoker [1d\]: p4 BadMove [-\]: o3 Nirvanaki [14k?\]: n3? Wanout: here R5 for white ScarletFox [14k\]: so white P4 instead of O3? thoel [?\]: yes AndreAy [1k\]: yes DonValley [3k\]: yes Grindel [8k\]: errr maybe ] (;W[nq]C[Child [9k\]: tenuki agui [4k\]: yes ] ;B[op]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: yeah ^^ Shinichi56 [1k\]: yezs ] (;W[no]C[rider [?\]: So what is white's best response? Tokee [5k\]: yes, I know now its a game=) ] (;B[oo] ;W[nn] ;B[pm]TR[nn][no][np][hq][nq]C[A1Steak [5k?\]: 5 Tokee [5k\]: 5 agui [4k\]: 5 lines Scribe [-\]: Principle: four stone wall, extend five spaces Tokee [5k\]: always n+ 1 ljl [4k?\]: h3 A1Steak [5k?\]: 4 ] (;W[iq]LB[qh:A][pi:B]C[Scribe [-\]: on third line fre1234: g3 yithril [1d\]: slow Nirvanaki [14k?\]: good Child [9k\]: f3 later Scribe [-\]: Black has weaknesses at r12 and q11 Solite [14k\]: B Tokee [5k\]: but not yet, its too early i guess Nirvanaki [14k?\]: a yithril [1d\]: not really ]) (;W[hq]C[turkuaz [11k\]: too low? letum [4k\]: maybe even F3? Scribe [-\]: fourth line move by white sparks black to make enclosure and white needs to respond Nirvanaki [14k?\]: >< ]) (;W[hp] ;B[fq]) (;W[ip] ;B[gq]C[Tokee [5k\]: isnt it taste? Nirvanaki [14k?\]: yes A1Steak [5k?\]: 4th line Nirvanaki [14k?\]: j4 turkuaz [11k\]: 4th line is better? AndreAy [1k\]: low yithril [1d\]: 3rd line Shana [4k\]: 3rd letum [4k\]: 3rd pelister [13k\]: 3 Nirvanaki [14k?\]: 4rth fre1234: 3rd ])) (;B[jp]C[yithril [1d\]: instead of o3 can w play k3 mingjiu? Wanout: R3 ] ;W[oo]C[BadMove [-\]: who found k4 ? ] ;B[qn] (;W[ol] (;B[om] ;W[nm] ;B[pm] ;W[nl] ;B[mn]C[AndreAy [1k\]: w bad ] ;W[nn]C[Scribe [-\]: White stones are unhappy icebucket [-\]: Better exchange for B Grindel [8k\]: but this isn't joseki AndreAy [1k\]: W mistake Scribe [-\]: White is a little heavy and no territory Grindel [8k\]: shouldn't whiat have played k3 istead of o5 then ?? icebucket [-\]: difference in sente in both variation. One b has it the other W has it Grindel [8k\]: back a few moves rider [?\]: This seems like Kobayashi Fuseki. ]) (;B[ql])) (;W[nl] ;B[om] ;W[nm] (;B[mn]C[Grindel [8k\]: peek ] ;W[nn]TR[om]C[kobuz [-\]: what if black doesnt play n6 immediately? Wanout: yeah both kikashi ]) (;B[ed] ;W[ec] ;B[dd] ;W[dc] ;B[ce] ;W[fd] ;B[cc]C[Grindel [8k\]: yes ] ;W[bd] ;B[cb] ;W[be]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: f15? ] (;B[fc]C[Scribe [-\]: in game black tenukied from lower right to play the upper left Wanout: shicho Grindel [8k\]: e15 ?? Scribe [-\]: Big mistake gotobigo [3k\]: ladder AndreAy [1k\]: e15 captures mariosbank [4k\]: e15 ] (;W[ee]) (;W[de] ;B[ee])) (;B[df]C[Scribe [-\]: ladder for white at e15 AA101: d 14 Grindel [8k\]: ladder is not good for black though jantiff [-\]: so :) yithril [1d\]: e14 AndreAy [1k\]: c14 AA101: c14 agui [4k\]: C14 ScarletFox [14k\]: C14 AndreAy [1k\]: or f15 Wanout: c14 Javaness [1d\]: e14 AndreAy [1k\]: or e14 BadMove [-\]: almost ScarletFox [14k\]: or F15 ] (;W[cf]LB[cf:B][df:A]C[Grindel [8k\]: that was a typo ] ;B[fc]C[AA101: f 17 ] (;W[ee] ;B[de]LB[cf:A][df:B]C[Scribe [-\]: no ladder now ]) (;W[de] ;B[ee] ;W[ef] ;B[fe] ;W[dg] ;B[gd]C[Scribe [-\]: small avalanche joseki Brocoly [2d\]: this is a too difficult joseki for me ^^ ])) (;W[ef]C[yithril [1d\]: yes BadMove [-\]: no Sonni [1k\]: no Javaness [1d\]: a little bit AndreAy [1k\]: d13 Wanout: D13 ScarletFox [14k\]: D13 yithril [1d\]: d13 Wanout: yeah AndreAy [1k\]: me rider [?\]: Brocoly, you must be kidding, this is standard small avalanche and you're 2d. :) Tokee [5k\]: its a game =) ] (;B[bf]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: yup yithril [1d\]: dead icebucket [-\]: still trying to look it up in the book. ] ;W[ee] ;B[de] ;W[dg] ;B[cf]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: haha ] ;W[cg]C[Scribe [-\]: b14 is overplay Javaness [1d\]: black mistake Wanout: pacman shodan2b [11k\]: lol ponnuki79 [4k\]: hehe ]) (;B[dg]C[AndreAy [1k\]: f15 kilroy [2d\]: brocoly I dont' know it either ] ;W[fe] ;B[de] (;W[db] ;B[fc] ;W[fb]C[yithril [1d\]: f17 ] ;B[gc] ;W[bb]C[AndreAy [1k\]: yes ] ;B[gb] (;W[bc]C[AndreAy [1k\]: small avalanche easy, only big complicated AndreAy [1k\]: W e11? Grindel [8k\]: thousands of questions :) icebucket [-\]: e11 ] (;B[fa]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: f15 death? ] ;W[eb] ;B[ea] ;W[ca]TR[ba][cb][cc]C[Brocoly [2d\]: I never played avalanche joseki Kisame361 [23k\]: me either ]) (;B[] ;W[bg]) (;B[jc]C[seidelin [2k\]: do you like black or white? rider [?\]: I like black. Brocoly [2d\]: is there a trick to don't be kill in 10 move when I play avalanche ^^? ] (;W[di]C[AndreAy [1k\]: not d11 icebucket [-\]: I think he meant E 11 ]) (;W[ei]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: thats i good position babylion [2k\]: on this board should w play e14 or c14 variation? ScarletFox [14k\]: E12 Grindel [8k\]: yes this is the idea AndreAy [1k\]: yes Brocoly [2d\]: it seems overplay ] ;B[di]C[BadMove [-\]: ^_^ ] (;W[dj] ;B[fg]C[Grindel [8k\]: :) Kisame361 [23k\]: ya ] ;W[eg] ;B[eh] ;W[fh]C[icebucket [-\]: O.O poor white ] ;B[dh]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: ya Scribe [-\]: white e11 allows Blcack to counter attack ]) (;W[eh] ;B[dj]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: now black can probably make an eye shape icebucket [-\]: The empire strikes back. Mu ha ha rider [?\]: Black is in no hurry to kill floating white, but white having that group floating will be constantly under pressure and black can profit. ])))) (;W[ea]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: i only played 17 joseki in all rider [?\]: But this result is still bad for white, since F16 stones are floating. ] (;B[id] ;W[gg] ;B[dj] ;W[kc]) (;B[jc] ;W[gg] ;B[dj] ;W[lc]C[Scribe [-\]: better for Black to support top at k17 Nirvanaki [14k?\]: l18? ]) (;B[kc] ;W[dj]LB[he:A]C[Scribe [-\]: White attacks Black AndreAy [1k\]: why not e11? Scribe [-\]: h15 white is almost sente ]))) (;W[bb] ;B[fc] ;W[fb] ;B[bc]C[Violence [?\]: Yes Tokee [5k\]: what was the name? AndreAy [1k\]: yes agui [4k\]: yes icebucket [-\]: yes itachi1989 [7k\]: yes Tokee [5k\]: of joseki Kisame361 [23k\]: yes kaczki [4d\]: clear Arminius [13k\]: yes ]))) (;W[fe]C[gotobigo [3k\]: E14 AndreAy [1k\]: Brocoly thats already shown ScarletFox [14k\]: bamboo joint :-) Grindel [8k\]: is okay Scribe [-\]: Correct choice of joseki ? Does Black want left side to work with bottom stones ? ] (;B[bf]) (;B[ef]C[Grindel [8k\]: e14 Brocoly [2d\]: i was joking andreay rider [?\]: Brocoly, resign in 9 moves, and you won't get killed in 10? ] (;W[db] ;B[fc] ;W[fb] ;B[gc] (;W[bb] ;B[gb]C[icebucket [-\]: Ugly shape ] ;W[ea]LB[cg:A]C[Brocoly [2d\]: thanks rider Tokee [5k\]: better leave 'em alone for time beingß Tokee [5k\]: ? rider [?\]: Show the standard small avalanche result where black gets top and white gets left to compare? ] (;B[ff]C[Grindel [8k\]: now b14 FreeStyler [1k\]: l17 again ] (;W[he] ;B[hd]C[AndreAy [1k\]: no ] ;W[gf] ;B[gg] ;W[ie]C[Grindel [8k\]: humm okay attack white ] ;B[jc]C[Scribe [-\]: not good for White ]) (;W[hd] ;B[ic]TR[fe]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: not at all Kamisama [4k\]: h14 now? not enough AndreAy [1k\]: W g18? Kisame361 [23k\]: h17? Violence [?\]: H15? Grindel [8k\]: h14 Kamisama [4k\]: W H14 for shape? Violence [?\]: G14? ]) (;W[gf] ;B[gg] (;W[hf] ;B[hd]) (;W[he] ;B[hd]C[Scribe [-\]: very very bad shape for White ]))) (;B[cg]) (;B[] ;W[cg])) (;W[gb] ;B[hc]C[AndreAy [1k\]: yes AndreAy [1k\]: h18 Nirvanaki [14k?\]: h15 ] ;W[] (;B[bf]C[Grindel [8k\]: so white c13 ]) (;B[hb]C[Scribe [-\]: White gained a little on the top, lost more on the left when Black plays at b14 AndreAy [1k\]: yes Grindel [8k\]: yes this extention is no good ]))) (;W[bb]C[Grindel [8k\]: d18 AndreAy [1k\]: f17 Violence [?\]: B17? icebucket [-\]: no thoel [?\]: no, b at e18 Scribe [-\]: b18 is wrong order of moves ] (;B[fc] ;W[fb] (;B[gc]C[DanMoD [6d\]: b14 first and cut? ] ;W[db]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: d19 thoel [?\]: instead of B17, should black start with E18 ] ;B[gb] ;W[ca]C[icebucket [-\]: wrong order? Grindel [8k\]: g14 for black Nirvanaki [14k?\]: d19? icebucket [-\]: yay Matini [14k\]: f19 e 18 e19 d19 b19 ]) (;B[bc]C[Grindel [8k\]: a17 ] (;W[ac]C[rider [?\]: F15 too heavy, white should focus on left and C14? ] ;B[eb] ;W[gc]C[Scribe [-\]: Big Chance for Black ] ;B[db]C[Scribe [-\]: Result is very good for Black ] (;W[fc] ;B[bf]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: oh ]) (;W[cg] ;B[fc]C[Kamisama [4k\]: i would just capture at g17 AndreAy [1k\]: d18 instead ])) (;W[cg] ;B[gc] ;W[db] ;B[da] ;W[eb]C[AA101: g18 ] ;B[ad] (;W[bf] ;B[gb]) (;W[ae] ;B[ab]C[Tokee [5k\]: black is unfair now =) Grindel [8k\]: life Nirvanaki [14k?\]: lol Kisame361 [23k\]: ya ] (;W[gb]C[AndreAy [1k\]: b19 ] ;B[ba]LB[hc:B][bf:A]C[icebucket [-\]: hard game for W now Grindel [8k\]: problems Scribe [-\]: Black lived in corner ]) (;W[ba]C[babylion [2k\]: g14 ? ] (;B[gb] ;W[ac]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: now black in the corner has life itachi1989 [7k\]: ko Grindel [8k\]: f19 Grindel [8k\]: no AndreAy [1k\]: n6 Brocoly [2d\]: n6 Grindel [8k\]: n6 AA101: n 6 ] ;B[mn]) (;B[ac]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: b14 itachi1989 [7k\]: e19 ])))) (;W[bf] (;B[ad]) (;B[gc] ;W[db] ;B[da] ;W[eb] (;B[ab] ;W[gb]C[Scribe [-\]: White has problems at both xc13 and h17 ] ;B[ba]LB[hc:A][cg:B]) (;B[ba] ;W[ab]))) (;W[db]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: very good ] ;B[ab] ;W[ba] ;B[bf]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: c19 ] ;W[ca] ;B[ac]))) (;B[db] ;W[eb]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: b17 Grindel [8k\]: nothing i guess Scribe [-\]: b18 should have been at d18 ryusejin [3d?\]: f17 ]))) (;B[dg] ;W[ef] ;B[de]) (;B[fc] ;W[fb] ;B[gc]))) (;B[cf]C[yithril [1d\]: needs the ladder AndreAy [1k\]: with ladder Javaness [1d\]: when ladder AA101: ladder Scribe [-\]: black has choice of c14 and d14 Wanout: if shich o correct toward lowerright corner, but not in this case ] ;W[bf]C[Scribe [-\]: depends upon ladder ] ;B[fc] ;W[ee] ;B[de] ;W[cg] ;B[df] ;W[ef]C[Javaness [1d\]: oh oh ]))))) (;W[jq] ;B[no]C[yithril [1d\]: ouch Nirvanaki [14k?\]: haha AndreAy [1k\]: instead of o4 A1Steak [5k?\]: >< icebucket [-\]: very painful... Scribe [-\]: White must extend, cant allow black hane at o5 ])) (;W[jq]C[yithril [1d\]: yeah yithril [1d\]: just take the point AndreAy [1k\]: yes A1Steak [5k?\]: no ] ;B[hq] ;W[nq] ;B[op] ;W[no] ;B[oo] ;W[nn] ;B[pm]TR[jq]C[yithril [1d\]: i see Tokee [5k\]: noooo Scribe [-\]: White is too small thoel [?\]: no Redjoker [1d\]: yes Shanti [-\]: :s A1Steak [5k?\]: no LTL92 [9k\]: rider, are you hikarujr or kyle Scribe [-\]: k3 too close to the wall ]) (;W[iq]C[yithril [1d\]: haha yithril [1d\]: ok icebucket [-\]: ^^ Grindel [8k\]: very nice ] (;B[gq] ;W[nq] ;B[op] ;W[no] ;B[oo]LB[hq:A][iq:B]C[A1Steak [5k?\]: :-) Grindel [8k\]: ahhh Scribe [-\]: Mingjiu does not know k3, j3 yes , but not k3 icebucket [-\]: return to joseki ] ;W[nn] ;B[pm]) (;B[nq] ;W[qo]C[Grindel [8k\]: oh ]) (;B[op]C[rider [?\]: This is new variation to Kobayashi, since traditional Kobayashi, black respond to O4 with pincer. Grindel [8k\]: o3 icebucket [-\]: Ah..!!!! P4 is better. to stop invasion Scribe [-\]: if black o3, white r5 can break up the right side ] ;W[fq]C[Scribe [-\]: also possible ] ;B[eq] ;W[fp] ;B[cn] ;W[ql]))) (;B[sb] (;W[rc] ;B[rb] ;W[sc] ;B[qc] ;W[qd] ;B[pc] ;W[qe] ;B[pd] ;W[re] ;B[pe] ;W[qf] ;B[pg] ;W[qg] ;B[qh] ;W[rh] ;B[qi] ;W[ri] ;B[qj] ;AB[oh][rj][sj]LB[sf:C][rg:A][sg:B]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: white lives babylion [2k\]: lol turkuaz [11k\]: :) Violence [?\]: Black to kill? Nirvanaki [14k?\]: ha Kisame361 [23k\]: black cant kill that Kisame361 [23k\]: if black invades white will kill Tokee [5k\]: b to gain something Arminius [13k\]: T13 Nirvanaki [14k?\]: t15 gotobigo [3k\]: ko thoel [?\]: black can kill Matini [14k\]: t11 seadragon5 [5k\]: T13 and T15 thy [8k\]: yes kill Kisame361 [23k\]: u think so AA101: white lives Tokee [5k\]: superko=) Kisame361 [23k\]: i thot so Matini [14k\]: t11 Matini [14k\]: ? IamNoob [14k\]: t14? Grindel [8k\]: t13 Violence [?\]: T14 icebucket [-\]: white lives raffaele [3k\]: t15 to kill Kisame361 [23k\]: can mingjiu see wat we say? DanMoD [6d\]: ko :) Redjoker [1d\]: s13 Violence [?\]: wait... Grindel [8k\]: yes Tokee [5k\]: b to look for as much kothreads possile? Erstnick [5k\]: yes he reads it ScarletFox [14k\]: yes he can Kisame :-) Kisame361 [23k\]: ok Redjoker [1d\]: s13~! Nirvanaki [14k?\]: t15 t13 t14 Kaizen [4k?\]: KO Nirvanaki [14k?\]: death -.- Redjoker [1d\]: s13 gotobigo [3k\]: t13 agui [4k\]: T14 Grindel [8k\]: t13 Kaizen [4k?\]: t13 sousys [11k\]: t12 raffaele [3k\]: t15 Hogfather [3d\]: k10 Violence [?\]: t15 IamNoob [14k\]: t12 icebucket [-\]: lol every possible combination Nirvanaki [14k?\]: t15 tinka74 [12k\]: q14 ^^ Erstnick [5k\]: q14 Erstnick [5k\]: haha tinka Violence [?\]: T15 ] ;W[]C[thy [8k\]: A Matini [14k\]: what about t11 for b to start with? itachi1989 [7k\]: t12 Violence [?\]: T15 is first move. Nirvanaki [14k?\]: lol ] (;B[sd] ;W[rd] ;B[rg] ;W[sg] ;B[sh]C[ben0 [2d\]: s13 t13 t15 t14 ] ;W[rf] ;B[si] ;W[se]) (;B[sf]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: t12 ] ;W[se]TR[sf]C[AndreAy [1k\]: s13 ]) (;B[sg] (;W[rg] ;B[se] ;W[sh]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: yes ] ;B[sf] ;W[rf]) (;W[sf]C[Tokee [5k\]: t11 sounds funny, still possible... Nirvanaki [14k?\]: first t15 ])) (;B[si] ;W[rg]) (;B[rg]C[itachi1989 [7k\]: t 12 Matini [14k\]: :p ok backpacker [2k\]: then T15 itachi1989 [7k\]: t15 t14 t16 t12 ] (;W[sg]C[Tokee [5k\]: no ] ;B[se]C[Redjoker [1d\]: :D ] (;W[sf] ;B[sd]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: i still dont think black can kill white there ] ;W[rd] ;B[sh]C[Kisame361 [23k\]: s16 ]) (;W[rf] ;B[si]LB[rd:B][sh:A]C[ryusejin [3d?\]: ... ])) (;W[sd] ;B[sf] ;W[rf]TR[pf]C[Violence [?\]: ko? DanMoD [6d\]: yes :))) Violence [?\]: Ahhh ] ;B[sh]C[Violence [?\]: wow Violence [?\]: ko Scribe [-\]: ANswer Scribe [-\]: KO Grindel [8k\]: wow ])) (;B[se]C[AndreAy [1k\]: t15 ] ;W[sf]C[Violence [?\]: t16 Violence [?\]: can you T16 after T14? ] ;B[rg]C[backpacker [2k\]: s13 then T12 ] (;W[sg] ;B[sd]C[ben0 [2d\]: s13 t13 t15 t14 Violence [?\]: yeah Violence [?\]: But? ]) (;W[sd]C[Nirvanaki [14k?\]: haha Arminius [13k\]: hm ]))) (;W[rb] ;B[rc]C[icebucket [-\]: >.< ] ;W[ra] ;B[rd] ;W[qc] ;B[qd]C[Scribe [-\]: New Homework ] ;W[pc] ;B[pd] ;W[ob] ;B[oc] ;W[nb]C[mingiju: [7p\]: Homework ] ;B[od] ;W[mc] ;B[md] ;W[lb] ;B[lc] ;AB[jb][kb][kd]C[Arminius [13k\]: I like Homework Scribe [-\]: Black to Play mingiju: [7p\]: Black's turn. Tokee [5k\]: anything =) icebucket [-\]: thank you. Redjoker [1d\]: i know xD Scribe [-\]: Xiexie Mingjiu Laoshi Violence [?\]: Xie xie Jiang Laoshi Redjoker [1d\]: thanks Nirvanaki [14k?\]: thx backpacker [2k\]: thank you sousys [11k\]: thank you Arminius [13k\]: thanks pelister [13k\]: thanks Jadeite [14k?\]: thx :) seadragon5 [5k\]: thx you itachi1989 [7k\]: thx Redjoker [1d\]: u are the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kobuz [-\]: thanks guojuan [5p\]: thanks to mingjiu ScarletFox [14k\]: thanks :-) Matini [14k\]: thx delux [-\]: thx AndreAy [1k\]: thanks, great lesson# hohokekyo [-\]: thx Kaizen [4k?\]: thx !! Scribe [-\]: Thanks to the Ing Go Foundation weiqidevil [-\]: thanks^^ agui [4k\]: Thank you very much AA101: thx kaiou [-\]: thanks mingiju: [7p\]: Everybody go home eli1493 [-\]: thx tinka74 [12k\]: thanks lupis [3k\]: thx for lesson and see you next time ^^ AA101: bye backpacker [2k\]: bye ryusejin [3d?\]: ... Kisame361 [23k\]: bye ])))